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So last night I decided to dip the (padless and removed from sax) keys of the upper stack in Tarn-X. I figured I've seen them cleaned the same as any other part of the sax in any picture video I've seen of sax cleaning so it would be fine. I completely submerged the whole thing (tubing and all) in Tarn-X then took it out after a few minutes, put it in a tub of water and dried it out. I repeated for each of the keys. It came out looking really nice then I propely slid each of the keys onto the hinge rod and put it back where it was.... I just read you shouldn't Tarn-X the tubes for some reason... is that true? Did I ruin my sax? is there anything I can do if I did?

Thanks
 

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Why do you bother asking? We've been through this with you and it just doesn't seem to matter.

Yes, your horn is hosed. The best thing for your horn is to sell it to someone who won't abuse it.
 

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Why do you bother asking? We've been through this with you and it just doesn't seem to matter.

Yes, your horn is hosed. The best thing for your horn is to sell it to someone who won't abuse it.
Been over what? I don't remember anyone ever saying before to me anything about the tubes on the keys.... so it's really completely busted? Sorry I don't know as much as you guys do. I was trying to learn.

Would blowing compressed air into the tubing help to fix it?
 

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I sense Dr. G's comment comes complete with a wink and an elbow jab...but then, both of my tenor stacks are shiny but frozen.

GPD
 

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I don't understand why you've been constantly nasty to me every opportunity you get.
"Constantly nasty"? Gimme a break.

Unless you take the horn apart and remove the springs, you are at risk of corroding the springs when using an immersion method.

If you just want to make it shiny, use silver polish, e.g. Haggerty's (which will add some protection against further tarnish if used according to the directions).

There. You've got it all in one thread!
The issue with immersing tubes in Tarn-X - or anything else - is the matter of getting all the Tarn-X out so it doesn't keep attacking everything around it. When I use "Toxic Stuff", I then use a series of solutions to get all the previous solutions off - for instance: rinse, dip in alcohol, rinse again.

If you assembled the tubes without getting all the Tarn-X off, you've contaminated the rods. I'm guessing you likely didn't lubricate the parts either.

I hope that was a sufficiently gentle explanation for you.

Be well.
 

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I sense Dr. G's comment comes complete with a wink and an elbow jab...but then, both of my tenor stacks are shiny but frozen.
Yeah, that's it. I must have lost my smiley face when I wasn't looking. Mea culpa.

Frozen - bad, shiny - good. It's not a complete loss!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
"
The issue with immersing tubes in Tarn-X - or anything else - is the matter of getting all the Tarn-X out so it doesn't keep attacking everything around it. When I use "Toxic Stuff", I then use a series of solutions to get all the previous solutions off - for instance: rinse, dip in alcohol, rinse again.

If you assembled the tubes without getting all the Tarn-X off, you've contaminated the rods. I'm guessing you likely didn't lubricate the parts either.
Well I did wash it off but you're right I didn't use alcohol then rewash. I lubricated the parts and they fit back on the rod. So there's absolutely nothing I can do at this point to fix it?
 

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If you're satisfied that it's all out of there and you've done your best to reassemble it properly...

Either be done with it or take it to a tech to have it done right. If there's any chance of residual Tarn-X inside the tube, I'd try to get it ALL out of there now. The longer you wait, the more time it has to attack susceptible surfaces around it.

I work with enough strong chemicals, etchants, etc. that I don't like them. When I'm done with them, I make sure that I know where they are.
 

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Tarn-X is a solution of approximately 5%Thiourea, 5% Sulfamic Acid with a very small amount of methanol and a surfactant. The rest is water. Thiourea is a sulfonating agent that probably breaks down corrosion through chemical substitution with sulfur. The acid removes oxidation and the methanol/surfactant helps with cleaning.

All of this is very water soluble. A thorough rinse with copious amounts of water and a little soap or detergent should completely neutralize and remove any undigested Tarn-x and almost all chemically produced residues. Easy neutralization and removal is one of the key attributes of this type of solution.

So as long as you wash all the parts very well and are sure you rinsed out every hole and tube, none of the Tarn-x should remain. If you still have concerns, soak everything for about an hour in water with a little baking soda or a caustic detergent like 409 cleaner. But just add a very small amount
 

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You sure that won't cause a reactive explosion if confined to a small space? :twisted:
 

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You sure that won't cause a reactive explosion if confined to a small space? :twisted:
I depends on how small a space you are trying to put it in, Dr G. :bluewink:

PS: The real answer is "no" as long as it's open to the atmosphere where it can't build up pressure.
 

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Meh, where's the fun in that?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Tarn-X is a solution of approximately 5%Thiourea, 5% Sulfamic Acid with a very small amount of methanol and a surfactant. The rest is water. Thiourea is a sulfonating agent that probably breaks down corrosion through chemical substitution with sulfur. The acid removes oxidation and the methanol/surfactant helps with cleaning.

All of this is very water soluble. A thorough rinse with copious amounts of water and a little soap or detergent should completely neutralize and remove any undigested Tarn-x and almost all chemically produced residues. Easy neutralization and removal is one of the key attributes of this type of solution.

So as long as you wash all the parts very well and are sure you rinsed out every hole and tube, none of the Tarn-x should remain. If you still have concerns, soak everything for about an hour in water with a little baking soda or a caustic detergent like 409 cleaner. But just add a very small amount
Thank you! That's extremely helpful. Do you think I should wash the rod as well since it's been in the tubing for about 18 hours or would it be sufficient to just remove it?
 

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I'd remove the assembly, wipe the rod(s), and run a pipe cleaner through the tube(s).

Lube, reassemble, and enjoy until the tarnish sets in again.

If you use Haggerty's, it penetrates the surface and forms a barrier that slows recurring tarnish - hence my stated preference for it. I prefer playing to polishing.
 

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I'd remove the assembly, wipe the rod(s), and run a pipe cleaner through the tube(s).

Lube, reassemble, and enjoy until the tarnish sets in again.

If you use Haggerty's, it penetrates the surface and forms a barrier that slows recurring tarnish - hence my stated preference for it. I prefer playing to polishing.
+1 I concur.
 

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... it penetrates the surface and forms a barrier that slows recurring tarnish ...
please tell me that this sentence is because somebody hacked in your account! :twisted: "penetrates the surface"... :tsk:
 

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How 'bout "has a chemical reaction with surface layer atoms..."?
 

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So last night I decided to dip the (padless and removed from sax) keys of the upper stack in Tarn-X. I figured I've seen them cleaned the same as any other part of the sax in any picture video I've seen of sax cleaning so it would be fine. I completely submerged the whole thing (tubing and all) in Tarn-X then took it out after a few minutes, put it in a tub of water and dried it out. I repeated for each of the keys. It came out looking really nice then I propely slid each of the keys onto the hinge rod and put it back where it was.... I just read you shouldn't Tarn-X the tubes for some reason... is that true? Did I ruin my sax? is there anything I can do if I did?

Thanks
As I noted in the other thread, Tarn-X has its uses, generally on the end of a Q-Tip to reach small spots you can't get with a more gentle silver polish, but otherwise leave it in the bottle.

Take the horn back apart. Rinse everything thoroughly with running water (lukewarm, not hot). Wipe everything dry. Soak a soft cloth in some sort of water-based cleaner/degreaser (Fantastik will do) and wipe down all the steel pivot screws and rods. Put some key oil on a paper towel and wipe down the rods and screws with a fine film of key oil so they don't rust.

Use a compressor with a blower attachment or get a can of compressed air (from an electronics supply shop) and blow out the key rods and leave them to sit overnight. Reassemble the horn lubricating all the rods and hinge joints.

Throw out the bottle of Tarn-X, along with the toothpaste, steel wool, valve lapping compound, or anything else seriously abrasive, acidic, or caustic that you may still be tempted to use.

Do get yourself a bottle of good silver polish, such as Hagerty's, a very soft cloth and a soft horsehair brush (for the tight spots), and finish the work.
 
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