Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Good afternoon!

On my Yamaha YTS-25, the A key inlay has come off. Luckily I have it
  • what glue is recommended for re-attaching it?
  • Are there any catches I should be aware of in re-attaching the inlay?
Many thanks in advance!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
17,960 Posts
Typically one can get some contact cement, apply to both the underside of the pearl and the surface of the metal touch. Let both sides dry (maybe 1-1/2 to 2 minutes), then press in.

Contact cement, not rubber cement.

Important to clean off the previous glue residue from both surfaces.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
Funny the same thing happened to my alto Friday. I cleaned it and just used what I had on hand, some multi-purpose cement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
Gap filling cyanoacrylate should do the trick nicely. (I can never remember the name superglue. :) ) Just be careful not to apply so much that it oozes out the sides on to your finger as you push down on the key pearl. If this happens however, it is an effective method to keep from lifting that finger too high when you play. :twisted:
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
TENOR, soprano, alto, baritone
Joined
·
7,409 Posts
Many modern lower-end saxes have plastic or abalone shell key touches which are glued in rather than 'pearl' touches which are crimped in on the premium saxes, so gluing is really the only choice. I have to admit I've used Super Glue for them. SG does attack plastic but it dries so fast that the damage is actually good as it provides a better gripping surface for the bond. It also bonds to clean metal, so once you do it you shouldn't have to do it again. Just don't get any SG on the good side of the button, on the horn's finish or on you. The best product to get for this job and many others is Loctite Super Glue Gel. You can squeeze out just a little and spread it around with the tip and its much easier/cleaner to use. it does take longer to bond so put the button in place, press it down for a few seconds and leave it alone for about an hour.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
It was definitely glued rather than crimped. I have some gap filling superglue which I use for model aircraft, and this was my logical choice, but I wanted to get a second (third and forth!) opinion!

Many thanks!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,814 Posts
It was definitely glued rather than crimped. I have some gap filling superglue which I use for model aircraft, and this was my logical choice, but I wanted to get a second (third and forth!) opinion!

Many thanks!
+1 for gap filling super glue (cyano). By the way, what kind of models do you build?

John
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,450 Posts
crazy glue (gel) you use in models I think works fine. I like that if you ever need to remove a touch piece, it doesn't require a whole lot of heat to get it to release. IIRC, a quick 2-part epoxy works well too.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW member, musician, technician &
Joined
·
4,982 Posts
I wouldn't use contact glue because it doesn't work great for two rigid surfaces that are not extremely flat (which is the case). It would likely grip enough to hold the pearl so it doesn't fall at least for some time.

Any of the glues suggested would be fine. I prefer quick setting epoxy even though it takes about a minute longer to do and a few minutes more to dry.

Many modern lower-end saxes have plastic or abalone shell key touches which are glued in rather than 'pearl' touches which are crimped in on the premium saxes, so gluing is really the only choice.
Worth mentioning that the two - the material and the method - are not necessarily related. I guess some plastics can be glued better than real pearls (though some might be worse). A lot of saxophones with real pearls have them glued now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,458 Posts
What about when you use heat to float a pad (assuming that the touch is on the key cup; but even if this one isn't, many will be)? The real MOP ones held in mechanically don't go anywhere nor do they scorch or melt if you're not an idiot. But the glued-in ones might fall out? If they are plastic, maybe you want them to fall out so they won't melt? I've never dealt with this because I only work on my own horns and they all have mechanically fastened MOP touches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
What about when you use heat to float a pad (assuming that the touch is on the key cup; but even if this one isn't, many will be)? The real MOP ones held in mechanically don't go anywhere nor do they scorch or melt if you're not an idiot. But the glued-in ones might fall out? If they are plastic, maybe you want them to fall out so they won't melt? I've never dealt with this because I only work on my own horns and they all have mechanically fastened MOP touches.
That's what key pearl protectors are for.


View attachment 226876
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
Octave key pearl fell off my Couf alto after 40 years. It had been attached originally with some thin brownish adhesive that looked like shellac. I repaired it with Sugru. Works perfectly.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,814 Posts
Yeah, but there's still a lot of heat conducted from the metal keycup. Is this not a problem?
I use that same exact pearl protector. The key is (pun intended) to NOT put the flame of your torch right over the pearl, even if covered with the protector. Trust me, the cup gets plenty hot enough to melt the glue/shellac without a direct flame over the pearl.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,458 Posts
I use that same exact pearl protector. The key is (pun intended) to NOT put the flame of your torch right over the pearl, even if covered with the protector. Trust me, the cup gets plenty hot enough to melt the glue/shellac without a direct flame over the pearl.
The point of my question was that if you are setting a pad with heat, whether it be a flame from a torch or a jet of hot air from a heat gun, things get hot.

The usual MOP key touch, fastened to the key mechanically, is not harmed by this, nor does it come loose. Yes, if you are using a flame from a torch, you need to protect the pearl from direct contact with the flame, thus the key pearl protectors.

That is not the subject of my question.

The subject of my question is:

If you have a non-MOP "pearl", in other words some kind of thermoplastic; and/or you secure the pearl of whatever type using an adhesive (and we have seen multiple recommendations for adhesive in this thread); and you use either a torch or a heat gun to set pads using heat, ----now watch out, here comes the actual question ---- is there a risk of either melting the "pearl", or, more germane to this thread, loosening the adhesive and have it fall out? Again, as I noted above, even with the pearl protector, the key cup, and by extension the feature where the "pearl" is mounted, still get hot due to conduction through the brass of the keywork.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,814 Posts
The point of my question was that if you are setting a pad with heat, whether it be a flame from a torch or a jet of hot air from a heat gun, things get hot.

The usual MOP key touch, fastened to the key mechanically, is not harmed by this, nor does it come loose. Yes, if you are using a flame from a torch, you need to protect the pearl from direct contact with the flame, thus the key pearl protectors.

That is not the subject of my question.

The subject of my question is:

If you have a non-MOP "pearl", in other words some kind of thermoplastic; and/or you secure the pearl of whatever type using an adhesive (and we have seen multiple recommendations for adhesive in this thread); and you use either a torch or a heat gun to set pads using heat, ----now watch out, here comes the actual question ---- is there a risk of either melting the "pearl", or, more germane to this thread, loosening the adhesive and have it fall out? Again, as I noted above, even with the pearl protector, the key cup, and by extension the feature where the "pearl" is mounted, still get hot due to conduction through the brass of the keywork.
Okay. To answer your question: Yeah, sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
If you have a non-MOP "pearl", in other words some kind of thermoplastic; and/or you secure the pearl of whatever type using an adhesive (and we have seen multiple recommendations for adhesive in this thread); and you use either a torch or a heat gun to set pads using heat, ----now watch out, here comes the actual question ---- is there a risk of either melting the "pearl", or, more germane to this thread, loosening the adhesive and have it fall out? Again, as I noted above, even with the pearl protector, the key cup, and by extension the feature where the "pearl" is mounted, still get hot due to conduction through the brass of the keywork.
In the absence of common sense and ordinary caution and moderation you can ruin anything. I use the Blazer ES-1000 butane torch with a pencil tip flame for all of my pad work. The advantage of this heat source is that it can be directed to specific areas even on smaller keycups. I have never burned, singed, melted any plastic key touch in nearly 20 years of repair using common sense and a key pearl protector. Using a small butane torch is kind of like taking a leak. You have to be careful where you aim it or you can end up with a mess. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,458 Posts
In the absence of common sense and ordinary caution and moderation you can ruin anything. I use the Blazer ES-1000 butane torch with a pencil tip flame for all of my pad work. The advantage of this heat source is that it can be directed to specific areas even on smaller keycups. I have never burned, singed, melted any plastic key touch in nearly 20 years of repair using common sense and a key pearl protector. Using a small butane torch is kind of like taking a leak. You have to be careful where you aim it or you can end up with a mess. :)
OK, so I guess the answer is that at temperatures used to set pads, plastic key touches and their adhesives will generally be OK.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top