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Hello-

I am very interested in a new horn and I have been research both the Kessler and the Mauriat. Does anyone else see a resemblance in the two? Are the made by the same Co? Price is clearly different but the similarities are quite striking to me. Are design cues so cookie cutter across the brands that they would look similar? Or am I looking at the same horn branded differently?

Thoughts?
 

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I think if you were to look at horns that are designed today, many resemble a Selmer. Always in the pictures, there are a lot of similarities, but that is only a design and a look that you see not the differences you would hear or feel

A saxophone being made in Japan or Taiwan or even China may "look" the same and may "look" like a Selmer too. Its the detailing in the work, the quality of metal and of course the tune up that will make the differences much more obvious than the look or similar design.

It is important not to buy Saxes just on appearences.
A top companies horns will be copied in looks but never last as long or play as well as its cheaper imatation.

Both Kessler and Maurat are making fine inexpensive horns that look similar as their designs are quite like Selmers in appearance, but their are detailed differences and perhaps differences you would need to hear.

Call the dealer that sells those horns. Kesslers will answer many of your questions I am sure.
 

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Bar-Ron said:
A top companies horns will be copied in looks but never last as long or play as well as its cheaper imatation.
What if it's made in the same factory by the same people and using the same materials and quality controls? (not trying to pick a fight with you Bar-Ron, but the topic interests me...)
 

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Step outside lad and lets do it!:D

A difference of opinion would need to be based on facts otherwise we are just speculating for no reason really.

IF they were made in the same factory by the same people with the same materials , yes it would be conceivably the same sax. I have no evidence that that is true, and i have never heard that; Just because two saxes look alike that they are made in the same factory. So many firms copy the Selmer series of designs that by looks alone one can not judge with any truth.
 

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There is another thread related to this topic where Dave Kessler states that his horns have no relationship whatsoever with Mauriat horns.

There are many horns made in taiwan and most are Selmer copies so without looking into the details they all appear the same. I have a Trevor James which is without a doubt a copy but closer inspection reveals a lot of modifications and enhancements.
 

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Sorry I should have clarified that I wasn't referring specifically to the Kessler horns here, about which I know nothing at all. I was speculating about Taiwanese horn manufacturing more generally, as I am potentially interested in learning more about it.
 

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There are several horn makers in Taiwan, besides PM. IMO, PM is one of the three (the other two being Yani and Yami) Asian horn makers that can really compete with Western ones.

Wyliesax -

If money is not an issue to you, contact dealers that carry both brands and try them for yourself. The best horn is the one that YOU like! (I would go for the PM because of its sound, but that is just me).
 

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A top companies horns will be copied in looks but never last as long or play as well as its cheaper imatation.
Have I got this right: all Selmer copies are better than Selmers?
 

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Rick Adams said:
Sorry I should have clarified that I wasn't referring specifically to the Kessler horns here, about which I know nothing at all. I was speculating about Taiwanese horn manufacturing more generally, as I am potentially interested in learning more about it.
I would hope that some peoples suspicion that Asian horns are all made under one roof by an organized mass of workers stamping out look alike horns and stamping names on them at the end, is an accidental misconception that should by now, be lost.

Productivity and profits has caused shifting worker location and also artistic and financial expansion to Asia. Europe and America have dropped the ball, so to speak.

There is nothing pathetically inferior about business being developed were the money is of more value and the same structural and learning techniques that it took the west to develop, its quality and industry will soon be a characterisation of the East if not already. Asians are building most of the worlds saxophones. Get used to the brand differences and the quality differences, but the factory name recognition thing of western culture is not a thing of the east and in fact has been fading from the west too.

An Asian company may just make a number of parts , products and instruments under one roof, depending what merchant wants what stuff. Their pride of workmanship is not diminished when the buyer desires a certain product for a certain price, we are not talking Detroit here.
Asian companies can handle a change and add it to there expertize.

What a funny concept to even imagine, a instrument factory making horns of all sizes and shapes and at the end a labeling machine............(Hmmmmm I wonder?)

What merchant would actually want to be associated with that?!
 

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Pinnman said:
Have I got this right: all Selmer copies are better than Selmers?
NO.

But maybe some day as economics shift.

Where are the better cars made?
Before WWII the best Cars were made in only a few places. The designs have been copied, modified and interpreted better by other nations, it just may come to pass that Selmers will suffer the same fate.
 

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I think that the Taiwanese horns are very good from what I've experienced (2 or 3 P Mauriats is all, and I was impressed with tone, finish and their feeling of quality) and I also thought the Chinese horn of Steve Howard's that I tried was fantastic value for money.

I have done some research on the subject of Asian manufacturing and my understanding is slightly different to Bar-Ron's but not in any way negative. I think Asian horns can offer excellent products and great value for money!
 

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I hope I wasn't inferring that Taiwan horns were inferior in any way. First I was trying to dispel the thought that you could judge two horns as being made in the same factory by seeing similar design features.
Then I was trying to point out that in no way are Taiwanese inferior by copying known designs and since Selmer's are the ones to copy , then using images as evidence to point out that they are similar should not readily lead one to the conclusion they there fore are made in the same factory.
Selmers are at the moment very well made, I never said Taiwan was better horns because they were copied at a high level.

In a nut shell, Selmers make the horn many wish to embrace for what ever their reasons. Market money is invested in the Highest volume of acceptance= Selmer, Taiwan horns are made at a level induced by economics and pride as any one else, as soon as the talent, technology and profitability is in favor of Taiwan, they will become perhaps the ones to follow.

Rick I don't think we differ on our opinions.
I own one Asian horn and find it sturdy playable and a real economic advantage. I also have better horns, but I would have never bought them when they were new for purely the economics. I played on a Bundy II for years and was able to make it sound so good no-one believed it was a Bundy.
 

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Agreed on all counts Bar-Ron. Damn, I guess we'll have to put our jackets back on and go indoors again :D :D :D
 

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Rick Adams said:
Agreed on all counts Bar-Ron. Damn, I guess we'll have to put our jackets back on and go indoors again :D :D :D

Too bad there is no "Net pub" I'd down a pint with you. Hell I think I'll go down a pint any way, cheers!!:D

I'm having an IPA.;)
 

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A very good choice, I'll have the same and packet of peanuts please if you're buying :)
 
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