Sax on the Web Forum banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I'm New in this forum and i'm going for a new tenor sax.
Im' intrested to hear opinions from you sx-90r owners, how you like your instrument? Do you have any of those probs that Steven Howard mentions in his review? I sure would like to buy that 90r shadow, but if there is some major problems in quality, then maybe i should get a yamaha, yani or selmer???
What i've heard is sx-90r's are the best sounding horns on earth...
Any information appreciated!!!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,260 Posts
The Keilwerth SX90R is an amazing, amazing horn. I love mine so much, and have had the chance to compare it to a few vintage Selmers side by side. Except for one of those horns, which was a regular Balanced Action 23XXX (or maybe it was 26XXX I don't remember), the SX90R is what I prefer over just about every Selmer I've tried. Plus you can find used ones around for like 2600 bucks in good shape, and I doubt you'd find a good MKVI for that much.

As far as feel goes, the Keilwerth is going to feel a little different in your hands because of the larger key pearls and the different key positioning compared to other brands, but the latter could probably be said for anytime that you switch to a different brand horn.

The overall core sound of the SX90R is really big, and one time when I tried my friend Mike Ruby's MKVI (Mike is a great Canadian tenor player that lives in NYC), the SX90R had a much bigger natural core sound than the MKVI. Also, the black-nickel lacquered one has a nice, dark but powerful sound.

I believe I saw someone selling one, maybe 10Mfan, in the for sale section recently for a very reasonable price. Might be worth investigating.

For whatever it's worth, the SX90R is the only tenor I have and there are some sound samples on my websites if you're interested in hearing them to help you decide.

One thing - sometimes a new/used sax can be a little out of adjustment. It might be best to take it to your tech when you get it just to make sure the simple stuff like the RH stack pad timing, Bb bis/C key pad timing, G# pad cup bumper timing, and Bb-bis/RH stack pad timing is all in correct adjustment. This stuff can make a world of difference when it's set up to play easily, and when it's out of adjustment any horn becomes pretty difficult to play.

Hope you enjoy the horn whichever way you decide. Just a word to the wise - the Keilwerth is a little different than a Selmer. If you're used to a Selmer, you may or may not like the Keilwerth. The bore on the Keilwereth is a little bigger. However, I love that because it seems to give you a really big sound and the horns are easy to play when in adjustment.

Best thing to do is not to buy a horn you've never tried though. If you order a new one from WWBW you'll get a trial period but that is probably going to mean that the horn is gonna be more expensive. Maybe you can find one for sale within driving distance of where you live and give it a "test-drive" before you make the final purchase. Even though $2,600-$3,000 is a really good deal for a used top-echelon pro-level tenor sax (and I'm pretty sure I've seen used black-nickel SX90R tenors in that price range), it's still a lot of money to spend so it's probably best to make sure you're gonna love the horn before you drop the dough.

Have fun.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
Joined
·
1,396 Posts
Dont rely on things that you read or hear,go out and play as many horns as you possibly can and then decide.Everyone has their personal opinion on what sounds good.Make your decision on what sounds good to you....
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
4,881 Posts
There are many pros getting by with $1500-$2000 horns. Unless you got money and ego to burn there is a point where the expense simply isn't justified.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
18,947 Posts
...What I've heard is sx-90r's are the best sounding horns on earth...
Any information appreciated!!!
OK...my assumption is you are just pretty excited about the proposition, eh ? :TGNCHK: But you gotta watch out about phrasing things like this on a sax Forum ;)

There are many pros getting by with $1500-$2000 horns. Unless you got money and ego to burn there is a point where the expense simply isn't justified.
Good point which I would would even expand down to $750 (granted not for a brand-new, however).

Juseli...they are reputed to be one of the best available horns made today. Now, whether this translates into the best sounding Tenor on earth is highly debatable.

Are there construction inconsistencies with new Keilwerths ?
Yes, apparently there are.

Should there be such issues on a horn of these prices ?
No, there absolutely shouldn't be.

Will this change anything ?
No, probably not.

Is it fair to say that the SH reviews are so "fine-tooth-comb" that in certain respects, they are beyond anything practical ? That they are almost "too artisan" ?
Mmmm...after having read a-many...yeah...one can submit such an argument.

Does JK Co. stand behind their products ?
Yes, apparently they do.

If you wanna buy a $4500 brand-new Tenor, it is probably a pretty good choice. (Although one could argue why not an R&C R1 Gold-plated ? ....or a Borgani of some sort...?)

But, are you asking which BRAND-NEW Tenor is the best ? Or are you asking for suggestions on what kind of professional-quality Tenor to buy ? What can you spend, and what would you like to spend ?

....because, one need not drop that sorta money to acquire an absolutely kick#ss professional-grade horn.
 

·
The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster, Forum
Joined
·
27,646 Posts
Im' intrested to hear opinions from you sx-90r owners, how you like your instrument?
Hi Juseli! I invite you to read through the many posts in the Keilwerth area of the forum which answer your question.

Do you have any of those probs that Steven Howard mentions in his review?
Plenty to read already on this topic. Please read the existing threads and do a search on the subject.

I sure would like to buy that 90r shadow, but if there is some major problems in quality, then maybe i should get a yamaha, yani or selmer???
Quaility control from the factory is definitely something to consider, but also is a question of the sound, response, etc. of the sax once it's in top adjustment. You need to play them to understand what you want, not read about it or go on hearsay as your primary source.

What i've heard . . .
...as are Selmers, Yanagisawas, Yamahas, Conns, Bueschers, . . .
"What I've heard..." is a trap. Play as many saxes as you can so it's not hypothetical.

To answer your topic question, depends on what you need and want and what you are paying. Go used unless you can swing a sweet discount for a new one. Is it worth the money? My JK tenor is - for me.
 

·
VENDOR "Innovation over imitation"
Joined
·
16,234 Posts
I just had a new one in here that I sold.

I thought it was an INCREDIBLE HORN!

It had the balls and presence of a great Conn 10M, and the modern keyboard.
It felt great and played HUGE!!! The low notes were fat, and the palm keys were THICK sounding.

There was nothing about this horn that I didnt love.

I'm a full time alto player, but if I were to get a great tenor in here to keep for myself...I would use the Keilwerth SX90R without any reservation.
 

·
VENDOR "Innovation over imitation"
Joined
·
16,234 Posts
In case you dont know me...I buy and sell mouthpieces, and every once in a while, horns.

I didnt get rid of it because I didnt like it. I traded mpc's for it, and got it to sell.

Just wanted to clarify, in case someone was wondering why I got a new one in here and sold it, and then said how great it was. :)

IT WAS A MONSTER PLAYER!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
SX90R are the best horns for tenor. They are huge players.
For alto I think there are good alternatives to the also good sx90R alto.

In my opinion the alto sx90R isn´t as sensational as the tenor SX90R is.
for alto my preferred horn is the ref 54 Hummingbird.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2017
Joined
·
8,121 Posts
Definitely if you have the money.

Often they come up on ebay and this forum for sale slightly used for half the new price. I played Couf Superba I tenor for about ten years and have to say it had some real power.

B:cool:
 

·
Forum Contributor 2017
Joined
·
8,121 Posts
In case you dont know me...I buy and sell mouthpieces, and every once in a while, horns.

I didnt get rid of it because I didnt like it. I traded mpc's for it, and got it to sell.

Just wanted to clarify, in case someone was wondering why I got a new one in here and sold it, and then said how great it was. :)

IT WAS A MONSTER PLAYER!
Isn't " I sell mouthpieces" an understatement for you? ;)

B:cool:
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,594 Posts
Hi rossbu!

well, I don´t know the regular Ref 54 but I presume that they are the same horns, despite of the engraving on the Hummingbird model.

I think Selmers are outstanding but you can find two very different horns in the same serie.

What I like so much in the Ref 54 alto horn is its voice and core.
I think it sounds as a typical alto sound should be and it has the better ergonomics.

Keilwerth waited much too long to modify the ergonomics. The modern JK horns also have a better play comfort, unfortunately mine doens´t belong to them.
Selmer on the other hand always had superb ergonomics also the reason why Yamaha and Yanagisawa copied the Selmer lay-out and now Keilwerth.

But soundwise is a Ref 54 an Allround equipment, more than the SX90R and the sound core and "ring" of the Ref 54 is also prettier.
As the the ref 54 came to the markt I had already my 4000U$ expensive SX90R.

The Tenor SX90R is a monster Tenor and slightly superior than the Ref 54.

For alto the Ref 54 is slightly superior than the SX90r, but it is just a case of taste.
They are different horns. Selmer is french sounding horn, JK is an American sounding sax, spread and warm.
Selmer has more overtones and a centered sound and I think this match to an Alto Sax better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Thanks once again Conn-hunter,

I figured that you'd say something like that - Dave Kessler described the Selmer as "sweeter". I currently have a vintage lacquer SRX alto borrowed from the local music store and agree. The intonation is incredible, comfortable for me to play, great sound (although it thins out up high). My local store also had a nickel played JK but it wasn't near as good as the one that I borrowed.

Anyway, my complaint with it, is that it feels soul-less - not much personality or warmth to the sound, especially up high. I just sent back a THC alto for adjustments and perhaps, reconsideration, to Junkdude and that to me, was loaded with character and warmth, despite some intonation issues.

I've got to settle my alto stuff before I can begin thinking about tenors, which is next. I wish that horns - Selmer, JK, THCs were more reasonably priced - it is hard for this school teacher to consider shelling out more than 2,000 for an alto and then turn around and do the same or more for a tenor.


Burt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sorry to answer so late...
... and not to mention, that I'm talking about a tenor...:D

"What i've heard is sx-90r's are the best sounding horns on earth..."
This was only my own opinion, about horns i've listened. I know that some of you did get wrong thoughts out of my posting. I'm Sorry About my bad english(you english "teachers" are wellcome to try it in Finnish) But seriously, I'm getting a professional horn if I find a good deal, and keilwerths sound the best to me.( in youtube and played by my friend)And unfortunately "shadow" is not a stock instrument here in Finland, so it's quite hard to test it before payment. money is not an issue as some of you mentioned... I'd rather spend 10000+ on a good horn than pay it to repair some piece of s**t
And before some of you will suggest that this topic should be in market place. I would like you to know, that my main purpose was to get as much information as possible before buying this horn... Not a big succes though.. :(
except for Funkyhorns pm, Many Thanks for That.
Best regards,

Juseli
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
695 Posts
The Keilwerth SX90R is an amazing, amazing horn. I love mine so much, and have had the chance to compare it to a few vintage Selmers side by side. Except for one of those horns, which was a regular Balanced Action 23XXX (or maybe it was 26XXX I don't remember), the SX90R is what I prefer over just about every Selmer I've tried. Plus you can find used ones around for like 2600 bucks in good shape, and I doubt you'd find a good MKVI for that much.

As far as feel goes, the Keilwerth is going to feel a little different in your hands because of the larger key pearls and the different key positioning compared to other brands, but the latter could probably be said for anytime that you switch to a different brand horn.

The overall core sound of the SX90R is really big, and one time when I tried my friend Mike Ruby's MKVI (Mike is a great Canadian tenor player that lives in NYC), the SX90R had a much bigger natural core sound than the MKVI. Also, the black-nickel lacquered one has a nice, dark but powerful sound.

I believe I saw someone selling one, maybe 10Mfan, in the for sale section recently for a very reasonable price. Might be worth investigating.

For whatever it's worth, the SX90R is the only tenor I have and there are some sound samples on my websites if you're interested in hearing them to help you decide.

One thing - sometimes a new/used sax can be a little out of adjustment. It might be best to take it to your tech when you get it just to make sure the simple stuff like the RH stack pad timing, Bb bis/C key pad timing, G# pad cup bumper timing, and Bb-bis/RH stack pad timing is all in correct adjustment. This stuff can make a world of difference when it's set up to play easily, and when it's out of adjustment any horn becomes pretty difficult to play.

Hope you enjoy the horn whichever way you decide. Just a word to the wise - the Keilwerth is a little different than a Selmer. If you're used to a Selmer, you may or may not like the Keilwerth. The bore on the Keilwereth is a little bigger. However, I love that because it seems to give you a really big sound and the horns are easy to play when in adjustment.

Best thing to do is not to buy a horn you've never tried though. If you order a new one from WWBW you'll get a trial period but that is probably going to mean that the horn is gonna be more expensive. Maybe you can find one for sale within driving distance of where you live and give it a "test-drive" before you make the final purchase. Even though $2,600-$3,000 is a really good deal for a used top-echelon pro-level tenor sax (and I'm pretty sure I've seen used black-nickel SX90R tenors in that price range), it's still a lot of money to spend so it's probably best to make sure you're gonna love the horn before you drop the dough.

Have fun.
As Matt is one of the finest saxophone players in the nation--he is a graduate student in the Thelonious Monk Institute of Jazz--I tend to find his advice to be as good as gold. We rarely have the opportunity to receive advice from players of his caliber. He'll graduate in 1.5 years and we'll all have to compete with Blue Note for his time!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
intrested to hear opinions from you sx-90r owners, how you like your instrument?
My 90 rocks. When I picked it out I played them against the new competiton 10 years ago.

I has planned to get a 62 prior to this trial, due to my love of my silver 62 tenor.

I had Selmers, Yanigisawa, Keilworth, and, Yamaha to pick from 3 of each, only 2 of the JK's. I brough a mini disc recorder for brutal honesty. Back when the WWBW was its old self, The horn counter guy segested the JK.

Recording, playing for myself and any random woodwind player I could find, listening - I spent 10 hours doing this comparo.

The JK worked out to be my best bet from behind the horn, and was the consensus on the loud end as well!

Play them all...Nothing substitues a trial.

PS - I have played Shadows, don't write off the black nickle ones. The shadow looked cool, but it was colder for me than the BN. I play pretty bright pieces, and the black one allowed me to have it all. Dark and subdued, to rockin and full.
 

·
Moderator
Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
Joined
·
30,100 Posts
Hi all,

I'm New in this forum and i'm going for a new tenor sax.
Im' intrested to hear opinions from you sx-90r owners, how you like your instrument? Do you have any of those probs that Steven Howard mentions in his review?
Sorry for answering and not being an owner, but I have playtested quite a few.

First, asking in this Keilwerth forum means you are immediately addressing a lot of people who like them, so you may not get a balanced opinion.

I found this to be a kind of horn you either love or hate, so you really do have to play test it. I found it to be very uncomfortable to play, and the tone hole issue is a real one. Stephen Howard isn't the only tech to have found this either. It isn't on all the horns, and it may be something Keilwerth have addressed now, I hope.

But if the problem is there, you may not even notice it at first, it could only become apparent as pads war out and/or it needs a service. But several of the ones I tried in a top UK retail store had leaks. When I spoke to the salespeople, they agreed, and said they keep getting them set up, they play OK for a day or two then they go back to the tech.

I agree that there are so many great horns out there these days for less than half the price, I would not recommend buying one of these without first playing it extensively, falling in love with it and having it checked out.

I should add that these are horns that at one time I declined an offer to become an endorser. But that's just me, I highly respect many of the people who play them and sound great on them - some of the best horns out there are like this, love/hate horns!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,528 Posts
Hi all,

I'm New in this forum and i'm going for a new tenor sax.
Im' intrested to hear opinions from you sx-90r owners, how you like your instrument? Do you have any of those probs that Steven Howard mentions in his review? I sure would like to buy that 90r shadow, but if there is some major problems in quality, then maybe i should get a yamaha, yani or selmer???
What i've heard is sx-90r's are the best sounding horns on earth...
Any information appreciated!!!
I own two Keilwerth saxophones, an alto and a tenor, and have known probably a dozen other people personally who own them. Not one of our saxophones have had those problems that SH talks about.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Technician
Joined
·
1,863 Posts
Juseli

I like these horns and if I hadn't got enough saxes already (according to the Long -haired Colonel AKA the wife) I would buy this one in the shop I work at.

ex demo SX90R not a blemish on it plays like a dream comes with a JK Winter shaped case.

£1995

Now thats definately worth the money

here's the link:

http://www.justflutes.com/pages/prdgrp.php?prdgrp_id=908
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top