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My son was sent off for his first day of school (6th grade) today. First class is band. We purchased a Keilwerth ST90 from a seller on Craigslist last night (paid $350.00). The instrument seemed to be in great condition, but I'm an absolute novice. I'm hoping all goes well. My worse fear is my son telling me that his band instructor said his sax is piece of garbage and is going to need tons of repairs. Crossing my fingers on this one:dontknow:
 

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Hello Foofer,

The ST series has a good reputation and should work well for your son as a beginning instrument. However, having bought it used off craigslist, I would highly recommend taking it to a qualified technician to look it over and make sure everything is in good working order before he begins school. (no leaks, good pads, etc.) All instruments, regardless of brand, price, etc, will need this kind of "tune up" from time to time, and it does not necessarily mean the instrument itself is "garbage". Pads will get dry and worn over time, and will at some point need to be changed, and anything with as many moving parts as a saxophone will need to be inspected from time to time to make sure everything is still working properly. With occasional check ups and taking care of it during use, it should work well for you.

I hope this help you and puts your mind at ease. Thanks for your support of Julius Keilwerth Saxophones!
Al
 

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The ST series was actually contracted out to a Taiwanese company called Jupiter, but are good horns in their own right. Have a tech give the horn a once over, and it should serve your son quite well in school.
 

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Yeah a good tech should be able to make sure it's in good playing condition. I've seen band directors make wild recommendations or even demands to students so I wouldn't place much faith in what they say. I had a kid who's band director insisted that he play a metal link and vandoren blue box on alto.
 

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Yeah a good tech should be able to make sure it's in good playing condition. I've seen band directors make wild recommendations or even demands to students so I wouldn't place much faith in what they say. I had a kid who's band director insisted that he play a metal link and vandoren blue box on alto.
High school/middle school band directors simply can't keep up with every instrument. I know of one who insisted on Meyer mouthpieces for concert band. He was a brass player.
 

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The ST series was actually contracted out to a Taiwanese company called Jupiter, but are good horns in their own right. Have a tech give the horn a once over, and it should serve your son quite well in school.
this is not really very precise a statement ONLY the ST90 IV was Taiwanese


Alright. I tracked down photos of all the Keilwerth SX EX and ST different series and compared everything about them such as the body tubes, the keys etc etc.

The conclusion I came to was that something was not quite right about the Amati and Keilwerth connection from what I have read.

The ST-90 Series II and Series III has the same basic tube shape and key shapes and other things as the EX-90 Series II and Series III and the SX-90.

But the ST-90 Series II and Series III and the EX90 series III are supposed to have been made by Amati from what I have read.

Something doesn't add up here but I think I know what happened.

The ST-90 Series II and Series III and the EX90 series III are made from Keilwerth parts manufactured in Germany and then transported to Amati for assembly and finishing.
So Keilwerth gets the assembly and finishing done at a lower price and can then sell them at a lower price.

So over time Keilwerth moved the assembly and finishing for the ST-90 and then the EX-90 to Amati and then finally subcontracted KHS/Jupiter to make the ST-90 Series IV.

The ST-90 Series IV is made by KHS Jupiter in Taiwan ROC.

Saxmaniax.com has this to say:

Model Made in
EX90 Germany
EX90 II Germany
EX90 III Czech Republic
ST 90 I Germany
ST 90 II and III Czech Republic
ST 90 IV Taiwan (Jupiter)

So the list above from Saxmaniax.com is what I also came up with by using photos of the different models and it seems to be pretty accurate except it seems to be this

Model Made in
EX90 Germany
EX90 II Germany
EX90 III Parts made in Germany. Assembly and finishing by Amati in Czech Republic
ST 90 I Germany
ST 90 II and III Parts made in Germany. Assembly and finishing by Amati in Czech Republic
ST 90 IV Taiwan (Jupiter)

All modern Keilwerth sax parts are currently made in Markneukirchen Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markneukirchen except for the ST90 series IV which is made by KHS/Jupiter.

All Amati saxes are done at Kraslice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraslice in the Czech Republic.

Kraslice and Markneukirchen are just up the road from each other so to speak.

Originally, the ST90 series I and EX90 series I and II and the SX90 were totally made in Keilwerths Nauheim factory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauheim

For the ST90 series II and III (before the opening of Keilwerths Markneukirchen Germany factory in 2001), Keilwerth shipped the parts from Keilwerths Nauheim factory to Amati at Kraslice for assembly and finishing.

Keilwerths Markneukirchen Germany factory opened in 2001 and for a time it appears that there were some parts coming from both the Keilwerths Nauheim factory and the Keilwerths Markneukirchen factory for the SX-90 and EX-90 series III and the EX-90 series III parts were then shipped to Amati at Kraslice for assembly and finishing.

From 2006, Keilwerths Nauheim factory is mainly just used for administration and Keilwerths Markneukirchen factory produces the SX-90 and the EX-90 series III parts which are shipped to Amati at Kraslice for assembly and finishing.

The ST-90 series II appears around 1992 and the ST-90 series III appears around 1995 and the ST-90 series IV then goes to KHS/Jupiter sometime around the late 90s/early 2000s.

The EX-90 series II appears around 1996? and the EX-90 series III appears around early 2000s.

The ST-90 series II and III and the EX-90 series III are made from Keilwerth parts and assembled and finished by Amati and have Amati serial numbers.

I had my Keilwerth ST90 series III serial number verified for the year of manufacture from Amati and the Amati chart below is pretty accurate.

Here are Amati serial numbers that often start with a 3

The following table is possible to estimate the age of Amati saxophone. Accuracy is approximately ± 2 years. And that's not so simple for the soprano saxophone is another table with an accuracy of ± 3.5 years.

alto, tenor, baritone
years serial numbers
1945 - 1959 to 27,200
1960 - 1964 to 55,500
1965 - 1969 to 83,700
1970 - 1974 to 112,000
1975 - 1979 to 140,200
1980 - 1984 to 168,500
1985 - 1989 to 196,700
1990 - 1994 to 326,700
1995 - 1999 to 342,300
2000 - 2004 to 358,000
2005 - 2009 to 374000 (?)
Soprano
years serial numbers
? (1965) - 1979 to 5000
1980 - 1989 in 8300
1990 - 1999 to 11,500
2000 - 2009 to 14,800



Here are Keilwerth serial numbers that often start with a 1

http://www.speakeasy.org/~granlund/keilwerth-serials.html

1978: 79,000

1986: 91,000

1993. 99,100

1998: 109,000
 

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Cheers SuperAction80 , that information has been available, thanks to member Saxpiece, on this forum since 2009, which, in my opinion shows the value of the using the search function and of using and continue using the older threads.

IF we don’t use the search engine AND we keep on opening new threads without first searching things in the vaults information is forgotten or buried under newer but less informed threads

I knew about that post and I have simply searched Keilwerth ST90 I II III IV and there it was.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hello Foofer,

The ST series has a good reputation and should work well for your son as a beginning instrument. However, having bought it used off craigslist, I would highly recommend taking it to a qualified technician to look it over and make sure everything is in good working order before he begins school. (no leaks, good pads, etc.) All instruments, regardless of brand, price, etc, will need this kind of "tune up" from time to time, and it does not necessarily mean the instrument itself is "garbage". Pads will get dry and worn over time, and will at some point need to be changed, and anything with as many moving parts as a saxophone will need to be inspected from time to time to make sure everything is still working properly. With occasional check ups and taking care of it during use, it should work well for you.

I hope this help you and puts your mind at ease. Thanks for your support of Julius Keilwerth Saxophones!
Al
I appreciate everyone's advice. My sons band instructor isn't actually going to look at the saxophone until today or tomorrow. I should know by then what needs done to it, if anything. Guess I'll have to wait and see. I wish I could have taken it to a tech before he took it to school, but I purchased it on a Monday, and school began on Tuesday. Honestly, I think I'm more anxious than my son. I would love to learn how to play the saxophone :rolleyes:
 

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Assuming that the band instructor is a saxophonist or at least able to play saxophone, there is any chance that he will find this Keilwerth ST 90 ( surely the series I, II & III) to be superior to all sorts of modern student’s horn or what passes for that these days on the market.

Sure you can find better student’s horns if you throw the Yanagisawa 901 in the mix but anything else won’t be, necessarily an improvement on these Keilwerths.
 

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Assuming that the band instructor is a saxophonist or at least able to play saxophone, there is any chance that he will find this Keilwerth ST 90 ( surely the series I, II & III) to be superior to all sorts of modern student’s horn or what passes for that these days on the market.

Sure you can find better student’s horns if you throw the Yanagisawa 901 in the mix but anything else won’t be, necessarily an improvement on these Keilwerths.
How is a Yani 901 a student horn?!

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
 

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How is a Yani 901 a student horn?!

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

the operative comment is " IF you throw (a horn as good as) the Yanagisawa 901 (entry level of the Yanagisawa) in the mix...........”, meaning that to find a better student horn than the Keiwerth ST I, II and III you need to go at least to the the Yanagisawa.........

Difficult crowd on this site!

St90 alto with serial number 753858? Does anyone know?
Have you read the post above with all the information, also on the serial numbers?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My son was sent off for his first day of school (6th grade) today. First class is band. We purchased a Keilwerth ST90 from a seller on Craigslist last night (paid $350.00). The instrument seemed to be in great condition, but I'm an absolute novice. I'm hoping all goes well. My worse fear is my son telling me that his band instructor said his sax is piece of garbage and is going to need tons of repairs. Crossing my fingers on this one:dontknow:
Okay, I finally had a chance to take the old girl down to the local music store and have it checked out. I must say, I was very impressed with it. Of course, when I tried playing it, it sounded like a dying cow:faceinpalm:. When an experienced saxophonist played it, it made beautiful music:). I'm very pleased with the Keilwerth ST90.
 

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Okay, I finally had a chance to take the old girl down to the local music store and have it checked out. I must say, I was very impressed with it. Of course, when I tried playing it, it sounded like a dying cow:faceinpalm:. When an experienced saxophonist played it, it made beautiful music:). I'm very pleased with the Keilwerth ST90.
Great to hear it Foofer! Thanks for the follow up and all the best to you and your son!

Al
 

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Many band directors will push Yamaha pretty hard, mainly because they can't be informed on all brands, as stated above. Also, they are fairly consistent in build quality, even if not in actual set-up up receipt. What you don't want is a new student to be fighting an inferior horn. It's much easier for them to become disillusioned with the idea of playing, if they are having issues, when those might in fact be with the horn itself and not their technique.

When someone has asked me, I usually tell them to buy the best quality horn they can comfortably afford. The only ST model Keilwerth I ever handled was a bari, and I wasn't impressed with its build. I know others have been pleased with them, so take my experience with a grain of salt. The ST90 may be more difficult to repair should it get damaged, which is not unheard of with young students. The best case scenario is that your child's director is a woodwind player, so they can evaluate the horn fairly and not be biased by brand name only.

Best of luck to your young student.
 

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this is not really very precise a statement ONLY the ST90 IV was Taiwanese
Not to be argued..one of, if not the best information on a brand that I have read over the past four month's...and I've read quite a few. Somebody did their homework and obviously has the experience to glue all this info together in a chronological order.:salute::salute:
 

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IF we don’t use the search engine AND we keep on opening new threads without first searching things in the vaults information is forgotten or buried under newer but less informed threads

I knew about that post and I have simply searched Keilwerth ST90 I II III IV and there it was.
but then how will any of us get to 60 posts? btw, hope this one counts toward mine. i guess i could always ask for a new opinion on synthetic reeds ;)
 

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You will soon graduate towards your 50th post
 
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