[empire13]

Keilwerth ST90 Tenor or Yamaha YTS275 Tenor and WHY?

As I have never played the Sax before, I would like some advice from people that have been through the same dilemmas...

I have read through the threads on JK ST90 and Yamaha YTS275 and it seems that neither of the 2 are made in their country of origin but instead in Taiwan and Indonesia.
I understand that both JK and Yamaha have to do this to bring the price down on student models.
I am concerned though about the quality...

My questions are:
1. Even if I can afford and I'm willing to spend on something more expensive should I stick to the student models? And if so which one of the two?

2. What is the playing life on a student model? How soon after I start will I have to invest on an intermediate model?

3. Is starting on a more expensive horn a wise choice or will it be hard to learn on?

4. Is the Key-placement the same on student, intermediate and pro or is it all about the sound? What separates the 3 besides the quality of the workmanship?

5. People say to test the different horns to establish which one is the most suitable to my likings. How can I do that when I can't play yet? Would it be a good idea to get someone else (that knows how to play) to play on them and based on the sound I like to choose one?


I hope I'm not asking for too much but I'm really confused. :?

Thanking you in advance!

 

[Tiberius]

As I have never played the Sax before, I would like some advice from people that have been through the same dilemmas...

Yup, it's a dilema, and tbh just coz people have been through it before doesn't make it not a dilema.

I am concerned though about the quality

The quality of *most* Chinese made horns compares admirably with those made in any other country.

I've tried a few horns, from my own cheap £300 Chinese horn, up to a £3,000 yani. The differences are small and subtle. For any beginner you're not going to notice a difference, certainly not in sound. The differences are mainly ergonomics, key movements are slightly less on the expensive model.

Buy whichever one pleases you the most. You're gonna be holding it for a long time.

 

[saxpiece]

1: The resale value of a so called student horns might be lower than so called pro horns but might be not depending on a lot of things.

2: A student horn can last as long as any other horn.

3: The lower priced horns are just as playable as the higher priced horns.

4: The key placement is about the same and their might be small differences in where some of the keys are placed but that's not a student or pro thing it's more of a company's design thing for their student and pro models.

5: Good question. It is very hard for a beginner to judge what they like so if you could get someone else to help that would be good but then again they could be biased and also choose a horn to their liking which might not be your liking.

The differences between so called student horns and so called pro horns are sometimes hard to define.

Generally the pro horns look better and might have more expensive pads which may not last longer than less expensive pads and the pro horns might have different construction techniques but then again these differences might be minor.
The Yamaha student models have stainless steel springs and their pro models have blue steel springs but the Jupiter made horns have blue steel springs for their student and pro horns.
The pro and student feature differences can be confusing.
I play on horns with both stainless steel springs and blue steel springs and it doesn't bother me but some players have a preference for blue steel springs which generally give a snappier key feel.

Their is really no guarantee that a so called pro horn will play and sound better than a so called student horn especially nowadays so a lot of it comes down to player preferences and that sort of thing.

The ST90 is made by Jupiter in Taiwan for Keilwerth.
The Yamaha YTS275 is made probably in Indonesia by Yamaha.

Jupiter and Yamaha own their own factories and so they have very tight control over quality control and it does not matter what country the horns are made in.

The ST90 and the Yamaha YTS275 are pretty close and either one would be ok IMO.

 

[CraigAB]

I am by no means a pro, so just take what I as just another opinion.

Most new people are generally not sure if they want to stick to playing sax. So if you spend thousands on a new sax and decide that sax is not for you, you will need to try and get your money back.
I would suggest you buy a second hand sax and save your money until you decide that sax is for you.
You probably will not notice the differences between Student / Intermediate / Pro just yet.
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/winds/

People say try different horns because some people can make a student horn sound great and don't have the same success on the pro horns.

So short answer, I would suggest to do a bit more reading on horns like the older Yamaha's etc to see what you prefer, even if it is based on others opinions and looks.
If you spend $300 and its not for you.....no great loss......better than spending $3000!

I see this just popped up....might be useful
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?p=1228878#post1228878

Hope this helps,
Good Luck.

 

[saxpiece]

Yes there are also second hand horns and Chinese made horns without a big brand name and both of these types of horns can be excellent but there are also some of these horns that are not so excellent.

A second hand horn can need a repad if the pads are really old and a repad isn't that cheap and adds more to what the buyer paid for the horn.

Some Chinese horns are really good and others might not be that great so word of mouth at SOTW is the best way to go about them.

There are also other brands like Antigua Winds etc.

 

[cymru97]

I'd go for a GOOD used YTS-23 (including the less expensive 23-based Vito) or YTS-52 over either of the others new. That said, I have heard good things about the quality of the non-Japanese assembled Yamahas but have never played one myself.


Here's a 52 on the forum that was just listed. Good description and seems like quite a fair price IMHO:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=119876

 

[empire13]

Thanks heaps guys for all your help!

CraigAB, I just purchased this http://www.hellosaxophone.com/.
I hope it helps! Once I get my new Sax in the next few days I will let you all know!

Thanks again!

 

[Shaneygrog]

I had much the same dilemma late last year. I had someone who was prepared to test any secondhand horn I might buy so I was looking for something good/student model near Melbourne where I live. There wasn't too many for sale and the second hand horns in the shops didn't seem too cheap compared to new. I looked and looked and in the end just decided to get a new one. My preferance was for a Yamaha due to what I had heard about them and my experiences with their motorbikes that I am fond of to say the least. One shop had the YTS275 on sale so I got one last Jan and it is made in Japan so maybee I got one of the last of the old bunch? I'm very happy with it and think it will do me for a long time. Is the ST90 just as good or better? I can't say but I think the yam is fine, so far so good and good luck, happy playing when you get one.

 

[CraigAB]

I hope that the web site helps. It looks like it is a pretty good starting point. Please remember that if at all possible seek out a teacher.
Why?
Well because it can be a pain to fix bad habbits that you didn't realise you picked up. Plus they can give you direction.

There are people here that are not near a good teacher so they either use a web cam or record their practise sessions and email it to their teacher.

This is a great site for any question you might have. I use the search function quite a lot. So much in fact that I often don't need to ask any questions as someone else has already asked it.

Good luck.