[chipcook]

Local to my town, a Julius Keilworth ST90 Alto popped up for sale. I am a sax player for many years, and familiar with Conn, Buescher, Martin, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Cannonball and other Asian makers. But I have NEVER touched or played a JK sax.

Yes, I have searched, and I have learned some JK's are still being produced in Germany, and others in Taiwan (I think by the same folks who produce Jupiters). I am in the market for a modern, low-priced alto, that I won't have to fiddle with too much (or invest heavily in repair) to get playing, and can be student-grade/intermediate.

Actually had my site on a cheap YAS 23 Vito that I can get for probably $50 and needs that much in shop work to get going. But, I wonder if the JK would be worth putting a little more money into, depending on what I find out on it's make?

Here are two pics I have received (and I am trying to get a serial from back and pic of bell logo). Any information would be great and is appreciated. The case is not a JK, it appears to be a Yamaha.

 

[JCBigler]

Yes, I have searched, and I have learned some JK's are still being produced in Germany, and others in Taiwan (I think by the same folks who produce Jupiters). I am in the market for a modern, low-priced alto, that I won't have to fiddle with too much (or invest heavily in repair) to get playing, and can be student-grade/intermediate.

All Keilwerth saxophones today are produced in Germany at their Markneukirchen Factory.

The ST90 was a student level saxophone produced under the Keilwerth name back in the mid 90s to early 2000s. I believe they were built by the Amati factory in Czechoslovakia and that they ended production when Keilwerth went into receivership and was bought by Buffet Group in about 2008 or so.

My recollection of playing a few in shops back in the late 90s (like '97-98-ish) is that they did not play as well as a Yamaha 23 series.

If the cost is right and you're willing to put some money into it with a good repair man, then it could probably be a decent player. But they aren't an SX90 by any means and not nearly a pro level horn.

 

[milandro]

the ST series was made in the I II III IV, the specifics are these

ST 90 I Germany
ST 90 II and III Czech Republic ( by Amati)
ST 90 IV Taiwan (Jupiter)

The one in the pictures above appears to be a ST 90 IV made by Jupiiter KHS in Taiwan

In my opinion a ST IV is not worth more than a Vito 23 and by the way if you were to buy a Jupiter series 5 or 7 secondhand you may probably pay less than one engraved Keilwerth ( by the way it is not Keilworth , this helps in searches)

 

[B Flat]

The Keilwerth series III are excellent value for money in my opinion.
I’d take one of them any day over a Yamaha 23 or even 32 possible even the later 62’s.
I currently have an ST90 Series III Tenor as my mess around horn and could easily have it as my only Tenor.

 

[JayeLID]

In my opinion a ST IV is not worth more than a Vito 23 and by the way if you were to buy a Jupiter series 5 or 7 secondhand you may probably pay less than one engraved Keilwerth ( by the way it is not Keilworth , this helps in searches)

I disagree...

1) there is no set of checklist parameters which would ever place an ST90 IV below a Yama 23.

The ST90 is a superior saxophone in every way, shape, form. Build, action, blowing response, tone, feel/ergos. (Actually, I suppose the only category a Vito-Yama would take it over the ST90 is : "a model which is highly familiar to the sax community". Other than that, however....nada).

So, it should be priced a bit more than a used 23 certainly.

Having refurbished both models, the ST90 IV is a better horn...significantly.

I would say, in good playing shape with no significant dents, and relatively clean...$600-650 is more than a fair asking price for a IV here in the US. One which needs some work (but not an overhaul) ? Maybe $325-400ish.

2) You seem to intimate that if one buys a used Jupiter model (which they can get for cheaper than an St90 IV, probably) they'd be getting a similar horn.

This is not so. The ST90 IV was made at KHS, yes, but its design and specifications are still JK. The bellpiece changed between the III and IV, and a few keytouch shapes changed. The tube, bow, keywork mechanisms, etc. are the same.

The design specs of Jupiter horns, are that of Jupiter horns. So an ST90 IV... is not just a rebranded Jupiter model.

These ST90's, regardless of which 'phase'...are good saxes, period. Better than student fare. The III's to the IV's ? Didn't lose anything.

 

[JayeLID]

Actually had my site on a cheap YAS 23 Vito that I can get for probably $50 and needs that much in shop work to get going. But, I wonder if the JK would be worth putting a little more money into, depending on what I find out on it's make?

Chip...buy both (if the 23 is really THAT cheap and if it really ONLY needs 1-2 hours of tech work to get it into good playing shape).

...then get both worked up into good shape, and keep the one you think is better, sell the other....you will probably end up making a profit on the affair....

 

[chipcook]

Chip...buy both (if the 23 is really THAT cheap and if it really ONLY needs 1-2 hours of tech work to get it into good playing shape).

...then get both worked up into good shape, and keep the one you think is better, sell the other....you will probably end up making a profit on the affair....

HA! I actually thought about it! Really, I just needed a "kick around, no frills" alto that blends well for a community sax ensemble I am playing in (my son may also use it, too). I typically play soprano, but my ensemble has some AATB parts.

So, I ended up getting the Vito, which is stamped "Japan" and got it for less than $100 with a little repair work! And I even got a case and Rico mouthpiece. This will make SEVEN saxophones I own! The Keilworth would have been too much...my closet "over runneth" and my wife would KILL me with that many saxophones! (she will kill me anyway as this one will have to sit outside the closet).

 

[dexdex]

From the picture, the keyguards look a lot like Jupiter’s. This could confirm the taiwanese origin, no ?

 

[chipcook]

I got another pic and it said ROC on rear. Taiwan.

 

[Global Woodwind]

in my opinion.
I’d take one of them any day over a Yamaha 23 or even 32 possible even the later 62’s.

If the YAS-23 was in excellent condition, I very doubt this would be the case. 🎷 I have a ST90 III on my bench at this moment for a full overhaul. Maybe similar standard, but not better. 😊

 

[B Flat]

If the YAS-23 was in excellent condition, I very doubt this would be the case. 🎷 I have a ST90 III on my bench at this moment for a full overhaul. Maybe similar standard, but not better. 😊

When played side by side, I know which I’d pick.
Others would have a different view I’m sure, but generally speaking in my area, when either a 23 or a Keilwerth series III come up for sale, the Keilwerth is usually at a lower price and in better condition.
This suits me as I find them a far better sounding horn with slicker action.
If speaking in terms of resale, the Yamaha would win due to how everyone (mostly just parroting others) touts how they are so wonderful.
And I suspect a little bit of an anti China/Taiwanese sentiment that is so prevalent amongst saxophone manufacturers.