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Great variations in sound between the horns!
http://www.youtube.com/user/kbsaxophoneservices#p/u/1/5sXoHEHHZd8
http://www.youtube.com/user/kbsaxophoneservices#p/u/1/5sXoHEHHZd8
Joel Frahm playing SBA's, MKVI's and TM Custom tenor
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As much as I'm kinda tired of watching videos of guys noodling on mpcs & horns, (even as good as Joel or Jay Thomas), these videos pretty much show that the new Taiwanese horns sound like crap compared to Selmers. (I like best him on the 53,xxx btw)
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opcorn:
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While I wouldn't say they sound like 'crap' compared to another horn, I would agree that modern horns sound nothing like a vintage horn (regardless of make).
However, out of all the new Taiwanese horns I've played on, by far the best playing example was a gold plated TM custom (sans F#). Maybe they aren't all the same, but at least with that one, it did sound similar to some VI's I've played. While it wasn't anywhere near sounding like a good (to me) SBA or BA...it did possess a richness/fullness/complexity that I find other modern saxes lacking (including the M'lady tenor's I've played).
I just wish when people would put up videos on youtube, they would go with a good quality recording and add text while it plays. You really don't need to see the person playing a sax to evaluate how it sounds (and it would be nice to hear a recording from something other than a camera).
Unless there's a bikini contest where all contestants are saxophonists and each give a performance using Conn New Wonder saxes with the Virtuoso Deluxe finish...in which case, someone please send me the link to that one.
However, out of all the new Taiwanese horns I've played on, by far the best playing example was a gold plated TM custom (sans F#). Maybe they aren't all the same, but at least with that one, it did sound similar to some VI's I've played. While it wasn't anywhere near sounding like a good (to me) SBA or BA...it did possess a richness/fullness/complexity that I find other modern saxes lacking (including the M'lady tenor's I've played).
I just wish when people would put up videos on youtube, they would go with a good quality recording and add text while it plays. You really don't need to see the person playing a sax to evaluate how it sounds (and it would be nice to hear a recording from something other than a camera).
Unless there's a bikini contest where all contestants are saxophonists and each give a performance using Conn New Wonder saxes with the Virtuoso Deluxe finish...in which case, someone please send me the link to that one.
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I REALLY want an SBA... :crybaby:
I played some of these TM Custom and they are completely different beasts than Mauriat's and other Tai offerings. They respond really, really well and have a nice core sound. The great thing with getting a horn from Randy is that if you know what you want, he can probably make it happen within the limits of those Taiwanese "blanks" What I mean by this is, no matter what he'll do - and he will do some very extensive customization for you if you need him too - these horns won't ever feel or sound like an SBA. The weight of the horn, the neck angle, the vibration, how the keys are laid out are some of the limits he has to work with, as well as the obvious : shape of the bodytube and tonehole placement.
Would I spend $1,500+ more than I did for my MKVII on a TM Custom horn? No.
Would I spend $4,000 more for a great relacquered SBA? Hell yeah!
Would I rather buy a TM Custom horn or a Mauriat (they're almost the same price)? There's no doubt for me : the TM Custom horns BLOW AWAY similarly priced Mauriats and Cannonballs.
Considering how much Randy can do to the necks of these horns, give me one of these with less key mechanism and thinner body tube, with a tonehole and key placement similar to an SBA and I'll reconsider.
Oh, and yeah the F# key does make a difference. I clearly wouldn't want one.
I played some of these TM Custom and they are completely different beasts than Mauriat's and other Tai offerings. They respond really, really well and have a nice core sound. The great thing with getting a horn from Randy is that if you know what you want, he can probably make it happen within the limits of those Taiwanese "blanks" What I mean by this is, no matter what he'll do - and he will do some very extensive customization for you if you need him too - these horns won't ever feel or sound like an SBA. The weight of the horn, the neck angle, the vibration, how the keys are laid out are some of the limits he has to work with, as well as the obvious : shape of the bodytube and tonehole placement.
Would I spend $1,500+ more than I did for my MKVII on a TM Custom horn? No.
Would I spend $4,000 more for a great relacquered SBA? Hell yeah!
Would I rather buy a TM Custom horn or a Mauriat (they're almost the same price)? There's no doubt for me : the TM Custom horns BLOW AWAY similarly priced Mauriats and Cannonballs.
Considering how much Randy can do to the necks of these horns, give me one of these with less key mechanism and thinner body tube, with a tonehole and key placement similar to an SBA and I'll reconsider.
Oh, and yeah the F# key does make a difference. I clearly wouldn't want one.
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I thought it was bright, glitzy sounding, with no depth. (this is what I heard from Joel's clip)
So I ask, why? Why buy one, when even a relaquered selmer is better? Or a yamaha or an old yamaha 61? Or a King, or a Conn?
"Not bad, for a new tawainese made horn" is a statement I've seen & heard being thrown around alot....
I say, aint nothin' like the real thing, baby...
So I ask, why? Why buy one, when even a relaquered selmer is better? Or a yamaha or an old yamaha 61? Or a King, or a Conn?
"Not bad, for a new tawainese made horn" is a statement I've seen & heard being thrown around alot....
I say, aint nothin' like the real thing, baby...
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This seems to indicate you think relacq's are inferior horns? The only inferior thing about them is the price IMO.
Not the same price either.
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You gotta love how an SBA sounds in the middle high and high register.
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yes, a true pleasure to listen to.
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Me too. But maybe I'm prejudiced. I play a SBA close to that number (#52xxx) :bluewink:.
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P.Mauriat 66r wich as I was told is very similar to TM Custom are by many considered being a dark sounding horn. This is not what i hear when listening to these clips. The TM Custom is a bit bright and does not have the warmth of any of the selmers. It doesent sound bad just different and not as rich as the selmers.
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I would definitely not consider my P Mauriat 66RUL as a dark sounding horn.
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I totally agree...this is a great player recorded well playing these horns back to back and the difference in sound is pretty obvious. For what it's worth, if you look, you can still find a decent 6 for around the same price as these Tenor Madness horns are going for, and definitely for cheaper than a new Yamaha or Selmer pro horn.
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Man, you guys better be careful. You're going to fire up the Asian-made Horn Lobbyists. They pretty much had everyone around here convinced that rebranded Taiwanese horns are as good as or better than Mark VIs and SBAs.
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Ok, maybe you consider it bright?
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The two best sounding Selmers were the relac'd 57,xxx and the 53,xxx SBA because they sounded the fullest with the most depth. He made them all sound good, but a couple of the SBA's actually sounded on the stuffy side to me.
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Definitely, when compared to my Ref 54, but not as bright as any Yamaha that I've listened to. As to warmth, the P Mauriat wins over both the Ref 54 and the Yamahas.
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This made me chuckle. :lol: Thanks!
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thanks Superaction2 for posting the link. I also think the relac'd 57K sounded great - I have a relac'd 121K which is just gorgeous (IMHO).
The TM horn sounded ok, there's was nothing wrong with it, it obviously played, but the selmers just had 'that sound'.
The TM horn sounded ok, there's was nothing wrong with it, it obviously played, but the selmers just had 'that sound'.
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