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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,
I could borrow from a local dealer a DVNY 7* (no 8 on hand) and an ESP 8 (they still have some left).
I'm currently playing an of the shelf STM8, which seems to do quite well compared to others I could play. So why change ?
Well, I'm not yet settled, but I'd like to have a bit more "core" in the sound when pushing. My current STM tends to get a bit thin when playing loud.
I could test a friend's plain DV, and found it to bright.
I do like some high harmonics in the sound, but with a solid core. Think of Dexter, Turrentine, Plas Johnson or Lockjaw.
Both JJs are really great mps, and I very quickly felt comfortable with both, using my usual Fiberreed Carbon M. BTW, I prefer the ESP without spoiler, though I imagine it can be usefull in some cases.
So: which one should I keep ? I know I'm the only one who can answer this question, but I was wondering if someone else here has played both side by side, and what was his conclusion.
 

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Go with the ESP....it is cheaper, and better.
But, as you say....you are the only one who can decide.
There is, I believe, a tendency to believe that if an article is more expensive then it must be better....it's called shrewd marketing.
 
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Go with the ESP....it is cheaper, and better.
But, as you say....you are the only one who can decide.
There is, I believe, a tendency to believe that if an article is more expensive then it must be better....it's called shrewd marketing.
ROFL...... With all due respect.

The DVNY is a very special piece in a class of its own. If loudness is what you are after try the DV. But these are far far different sounding than the ESP, IMO.

If you own an ESP and switch to a DVNY, you may never play the ESP again. At least that would be my bet if I had the courage to gamble.

Yes, I have/had ( no longer have or want esp) all of them. I only play the dv 7* though. I have many others to choose from, but why? It's that good. But it took me at least 6 months to fully appreciate the difference.
 

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dexdex, I think it depends a lot on what kind of playing you do. I've played both an ESP and a DVNY. The ESP was fine for all around playing, including playing in a not-too-aggressive big band. I also played it for a while in pop/soul/disco bands. I had to work a little too much to blend and be heard on solos in the pop bands, so I switched mpcs (to a Ponzol M1).

The ESP practically plays itself and is a superb mpc in that regard. It will work fine for general playing and, as pointed out above, should be markedly cheaper than the NYDV. On the other hand, the NY has more volume and presence than the ESP. If you need these qualities, then get the NY.
 

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I found the same thing, the DV was too bright and I went for the ESP 8*. I have since moved on to a Ponzol M2. My Esp is for sale if you are interested. PM me?
 

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There is no magic about mouthpieces....just physics.
If you believe that the Golden Ratio, Ley Lines, Voodoo, the hereafter, or the belief that if made from Unobtanium, hand beaten by Gnomes at midnight, is important, then just keep writing the cheques.
It is all about air flow & air speed....there can never be one mouthpiece which fits every occasion.
If you place loudness as a priority then a high baffle mouthpiece is necessary.
Gary states that the ESP plays itself & is a superb mouthpiece....he is right. Link like without the baffle & louder/brighter with it fitted.
I have to play loud on occasions & have therefore made another removable baffle for my ESP which starts closer to the tip & extends further down the throat....it still has a thick, full sound & is as loud as my SR Fusion 115.
With the ESP you have the choice...a luxury denied in the DV series.
I would prefer to spend half an hour modifying a baffle than spending a further £200 on another mouthpiece which took me six months to learn to play.
I ask you to read Jody Espina's initial advertising for the ESP....difficult then to make a more expensive piece when he has used up all the superlatives.
 

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I've played both though not side-by-side so FWIW - I felt the facings on these pieces were different with the DVNY being less resistant and more free-blowing. I like the DVNY better but the ESP is a fine mouthpiece as well and the flexibility the spoiler adds makes it attractive especially if you can get one at a discounted price.
 

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The ESP is a lot more similar to the link STM that the OP is currently playing than the DV...

Does the OP want a better version of the link, with the option to put the baffle in for a bit more of a R&R sound, or do they want something completely different to what they have now?
 

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I have an ESP and find it quite workable in both quieter acoustic type settings (w/o the baffle) and with the baffle I can get a very original sounding Jr. Walker R&B feel. Even with the baffle, the tone is quite Link like. Just a reminder, the use of a microphone can and does can increase the volume of a saxophone.:) I once tried a DVNY at a store and also liked it as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks to all of you for your insights. To answer canadiain: as I said in the OP, I'm not looking for anything radically different from the STM8. I'd just like to have more of the fundamental core when blowing hard, where my STM tends to emphasize higher harmonics. I play mainly hard bop combo, and like to use the lower register, the way Dexter or Turrentine did, or more contemporary, like Eric Alexander. Play the tunes on the lower octave, like Dex on "Second Balcony Jump". Both JJs fill the job, it seems that the ESP is easier to grasp, the DVNY needs more work to subtone and play piano or mezzo.
 

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My lower register on the ESP is very rich and easy to play.
 

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I think some of these responses are confusing the DV with the DVNY - the DVNY is not bright nor is it difficult to subtone or play the low end. It has a very lush and easy playing low end. I've owned both the DVNY and the ESP - I actually have owned 2 ESP's and found them more versatile than the DVNY. I could not get a decent high range sound or enough volume from the DVNY. Some people can, and they sound great on them, I just couldn't get it to work for me. Loved the low end though. The ESP was just a great all-around piece but I moved on to other pieces that I liked better. The higher range on the ESP was a little thinner sounding than I liked and I had trouble with altissimo on it. Between the two, I thought the ESP was the better piece, by far. The DVNY was not lively for me, pretty dull. Like I said above though, I've heard people playing the DVNY who sounded great on them. I think the bottom line is you need to try them both to see how they work for you. It may be that there are better options than either of these pieces.
 

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. . . as I said in the OP, I'm not looking for anything radically different from the STM8. I'd just like to have more of the fundamental core when blowing hard, where my STM tends to emphasize higher harmonics.
Grüetzi, dexdex! This was not in the range of your OP, so I didn't bring it up at first, but rereading your last post - have you thought of trying a STM NY?

My experience is that it will give you what you want, in contrast to the standard STM, and at the same time give you a sound with more complexity than the DVNY might give. I found the DVNY sound a bit too smooth for me. You should really consider contacting Eric Falcon at Warburton (http://www.warburton-usa.com) and tell him what you want. He does very good work with STM NY and, even though you will be getting a mpc tailored for you, it still might not cost as much as a JJ DV NY.
 

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Grüetzi, dexdex! This was not in the range of your OP, so I didn't bring it up at first, but rereading your last post - have you thought of trying a STM NY?

My experience is that it will give you what you want, in contrast to the standard STM, and at the same time give you a sound with more complexity than the DVNY might give. I found the DVNY sound a bit too smooth for me. You should really consider contacting Eric Falcon at Warburton (http://www.warburton-usa.com) and tell him what you want. He does very good work with STM NY and, even though you will be getting a mpc tailored for you, it still might not cost as much as a JJ DV NY.
I would go with Eric Falcon's Warburton LA, which has all the virtues of both Jody mouthpieces. The Jody pieces are excellent, but the Warburton in my experience manages to give you some of the kind of power and projection of a DV (not DVNY), with the tonal quality of the ESP or the DVNY. I have got all of these (oh dear) but find I play the Warburton LA much the most. It's not that pricey either.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hi All, I'm back on my horns after a couple of days off. I kept reading your comments, and was anxious to pick-up the 2 JJs. So far, none really got it. Both seem to kill part of my horn's sound. Part of the tenor "sparkle" (was it Stephen Howard's image about Selmer tenors ?) is lost, filtered away. They do give more projection, but the sound gets "industrialized", standardized. Like frozen food compared to fresh. The high frequencies are missing. Remember AM radio ?
Is this the price of so-called "dark sounding" mouthpieces ?
Of course, it would be a new balance to find, and things would come back into place. Anyway, the one I'd prefer so far is the ESP without spoiler.
Furthermore, and I've seen similar comments on another thread, the altissimo is totally altered on both mps: harder to play, and completely "desafinado". Never experienced this on any other mp. The perspective of reworking other fingerings is not the most exciting.
I'd love to give some of your other suggestions a try, but east of the Pond (and west of the moon), it is more difficult to have a big choice.
One of my STMs is currently on a german refacer's desk. Let's see....
 
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