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Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2008-2017
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi. Just got a new JJDV metal mouthpiece. I like it, very much must I say.

Curious, because have not been able to find the information. What metal is it made of? I just want to know how resistant it is.

And, what does DV stands for?

Regards,

JI
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
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DV is in relation to the Golden Ratio (the symbol on the bite plate) and how it was made much more known through the art of DaVinci.

There was a bunch of promotional stuff to this extent when they came out.

As far as I know they are gold plated brass.

I had a DV 7* tenor for a few years. Great piece. Wish I still had it.
 

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They are brass with a layer of nickel plating and then a very thin layer of gold plating.

FYI, the new JJ SuperJet is made of solid Nickel with no plating. Odd to find a modern mouthpiece or any mouthpiece made from Nickel. Vintage Goldbecks were. I think it is a great choice as long as you do not have a nickel allergy.
 

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FYI, the new JJ SuperJet is made of solid Nickel with no plating. Odd to find a modern mouthpiece or any mouthpiece made from Nickel. Vintage Goldbecks were. I think it is a great choice as long as you do not have a nickel allergy.
Are you sure? The Super Jets I've seen had a distinctively silver look to them, not nickel. I'd be very surprised if they're not silver plated.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I noticed it comes with a patch, for teeth protection. Has anybody changed it?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
They are brass with a layer of nickel plating and then a very thin layer of gold plating.

FYI, the new JJ SuperJet is made of solid Nickel with no plating. Odd to find a modern mouthpiece or any mouthpiece made from Nickel. Vintage Goldbecks were. I think it is a great choice as long as you do not have a nickel allergy.
I have always wondered about old brass and verdigris possible allergy, or even worse. What are your thoughts about this? Specially thinking in a mouthpiece that may wore out its plating with use.
 

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Are you sure? The Super Jets I've seen had a distinctively silver look to them, not nickel. I'd be very surprised if they're not silver plated.
I just lowered the baffle in one for a client. It seemed to be Nickel Silver which is an alloy of mostly nickel. But I did not do any material testing. I could not detect any plating but it could have had a thin layer on it. No color change as I cut into it.
 

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I have always wondered about old brass and verdigris possible allergy, or even worse. What are your thoughts about this? Specially thinking in a mouthpiece that may wore out its plating with use.
Even a thin layer of nickel plating is very sturdy. The gold will wear away but the nickel will keep the brass from being exposed.

I think there is little risk from verdigris. Most players clean it away before they get a significant exposure. Brass and nickel allergies are also rare but do happen. Most of my clients do not bother with replating mouthpieces that have exposed brass. Those that do seem more concerned with cosmetics than health risks.
 

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Are you sure? The Super Jets I've seen had a distinctively silver look to them, not nickel. I'd be very surprised if they're not silver plated.
I just lowered the baffle in one for a client. It seemed to be Nickel Silver which is an alloy of mostly nickel. But I did not do any material testing. I could not detect any plating but it could have had a thin layer on it. No color change as I cut into it.
The JJ website says "silver plated virgin bell brass". Not quite sure what that means but I have visions of tiny bells that have never been rung being melted down and reformed into mouthpieces. I wonder if we could get a statement from Jody saying no virgin bells were harmed in the making of these mouthpieces ;)
 

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The JJ website says "silver plated virgin bell brass". Not quite sure what that means but I have visions of tiny bells that have never been rung being melted down and reformed into mouthpieces. I wonder if we could get a statement from Jody saying no virgin bells were harmed in the making of these mouthpieces ;)
"Bell brass", similarly to "Cartridge brass" are obsolete designations for specific brass alloys. These descriptors have been obsoleted for at least 50 years now by the UNS descriptions which are specific as to the composition of each alloy. For example, the most common alloy of the ones that were commonly called "cartridge brass" is UNS C26000. I don't know what the actual alloy or alloys are that were called "bell brass" and I don't feel like looking it up at present.

If someone tells you that an instrument or other object is made from "cartridge brass" or "bell brass" it does not mean it came from actual cartridges or actual bells. They bought sheet metal (for forming) or bar stock (for machining) or ingot (for casting) from a metals supplier. Same thing if you see "coin silver" - they did not use actual silver coins, they bought sheet silver from a metals supplier.

So, for example, all the myths about Selmer using old artillery shells are based on a misunderstanding of how metal purchase and fabrication works. Selmer just bought from a metals suppler sheet metal of the particular alloy they wanted. It was probably something similar to C26000 because that alloy is highly formable - like you do when making a saxophone body. The common name, "cartridge brass", is the source of this myth.

Similarly, all the hype about "special alloys" of saxophone bodies and mouthpieces is BS. I assure you that companies like Allegheny Ludlum are not making special runs of sheet brass or sheet bronze with the alloy constituents specified by a saxophone maker. Even Yamaha's annual consumption of sheet brass would probably be something like half an hour's production for a rolling mill. What really happens is that they decide which of the standard existing alloys they want to use (and there are probably 30 or 40 specific commercial alloys that are suitable for saxophone bodies - probably almost as many suitable for mouthpiece manufacture) and buy the sheet metal from a metals distributor who buys it from a rolling mill.
 

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But "bell brass" has a nice *marketing* ring to it, while "cartridge brass" has a certain *marketing* explosive quality.

*marketing**marketing**marketing**marketing**marketing*
 

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The first line on the Super Jet web page: "The SUPER JET is a Silver-Plated Brass Mouthpiece..." Mojo maybe you didn't get past the silver, or didn't notice the brass?

The marketing seems simple to me: Otto Link has touted bell brass since some 75 years ago. It seems reasonable for a new product using the same alloy to echo the terminology of the respected predecessor.
 

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The first line on the Super Jet web page: "The SUPER JET is a Silver-Plated Brass Mouthpiece..." Mojo maybe you didn't get past the silver, or didn't notice the brass?

The marketing seems simple to me: Otto Link has touted bell brass since some 75 years ago. It seems reasonable for a new product using the same alloy to echo the terminology of the respected predecessor.
Yep, "Bell Brass", "Eburnated Rod Rubber" and all the other BS. God, I hate marketeers.

Somewhat off topic, has anyone noticed that breakfast cereal manufacturers marketing to the health food crowd are starting to use a new ingredient "evaporated cane juice"? Hmmm... wouldn't that be - let's see - SUGAR?

Did I mention how I hate marketeers?
 

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I lowered the baffle significantly in the Super Jet. So I was way past a plating layer if it was there.

I worked on a DV and a Super Jet in the same week. Bother tenors. Definitely different materials. Maybe they changed the SJ and did not update the web site.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Even a thin layer of nickel plating is very sturdy. The gold will wear away but the nickel will keep the brass from being exposed.

I think there is little risk from verdigris. Most players clean it away before they get a significant exposure. Brass and nickel allergies are also rare but do happen. Most of my clients do not bother with replating mouthpieces that have exposed brass. Those that do seem more concerned with cosmetics than health risks.
Hey, thanks.

I have received a couple of mails from people at Jody Jazz. They confirm the gold plate can go away somehow sooner or later, but that the nickel plating is very sturdy. That their technicians do have trouble trying to penetrate it.

Now, do you think that beside a nickel allergy, is it safe to play on a nickel plating? Same as steel?

Thanks,

JI
 

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Nickel is extremely safe as long as it meets RoHS standards. There was a scare a number of years back in europe due to high levels of lead, mecury and other nasties. My understanding is it was not in the USA. It came from less controlled sources...which is why i dont trust some countries to produce things i put in my mouth.

stainless should have no issues except its near impossibility to work with.

There are safe ways to do most things...well, not eating cyanide..but you get my drift.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Nickel is extremely safe as long as it meets RoHS standards. There was a scare a number of years back in europe due to high levels of lead, mecury and other nasties. My understanding is it was not in the USA. It came from less controlled sources...which is why i dont trust some countries to produce things i put in my mouth.

stainless should have no issues except its near impossibility to work with.

There are safe ways to do most things...well, not eating cyanide..but you get my drift.
Thank you. I am pretty happy with my Jody Jazz DV, but as gold plating might wear off, I was worried of brass poisoning, as verdigris, etc.. But JJ says after the gold plating there are other two platings, one of them nickel, and that that plating wont wear off. That's why I want to be sure... to be safe playing that as time wears the mouthpiece gold plating off.
 
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