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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all - apologies if this appears twice but I posted 18 hours ago and the topic still hasn't appeared, so I'm trying again as the question is urgent!

I have about 6 hours left to tell a private seller whether I want to purchase this sax or not!

I'm new here but have been reading for months. I play tenor for several hours weekly at home and in a stage band, and I also double on soprano or clarinet. I don't actually own my tenor (the band does) and it's leaky - I don't want to invest money in something I don't actually own so have been looking to get my own horn. Plus I would like a vintage horn with a big tone and a beaten up look!

The sax in question is being sold by a guy who doesn't play - says it was his friend's dad's old horn. This doesn't particularly put me off as I expect it to be in terrible condition given the date - it actually looks quite good on photos except some minor dents and brass pitting. I'm aware it will take an overhaul and that's ok - he is only asking a couple of hundred dollars. This isn't much for any tenor I know, though it is the last of my own personal hobby money for a while, so it does mean a fair bit to me to part with it. I obviously won't be paying for that overhaul anytime soon - though can do some minor repairs myself.

Anyway the big issue is that it has no neck. It's a rare horn and naturally I've had no luck finding a genuine replacement. The neck originally came with a microtuner in all likelihood - don't know if that matters much?
I am otherwise happy with the horn (Stohrer gives the Modell 3 a great review) but I am very nervous about the possibility that I will never find a neck that will work with it and have it playing in tune. If I can't ever get it playable in tune then I"d be really disappointed. How much of a risk is this? I imagine that it would be hard to resell without a neck too so I know I'm taking a risk.

Would love to get people's opinion on the value of this horn and the chances of finding a substitute neck that will work with it without A. ruining the tuning, B. looking ridiculous or C. paying a fortune for a neck (a custom made one for 500 euro from the guy who makes replicas in Europe is NOT an option!)

Thanks,
Nicole
 

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I would think that by the time you invested in a neck to take a gamble on how much work the horn might need you could buy a decent used tenor that would need minimal work. If you want vintage you could get an older Buescher true tone in decent shape for less than you would have on that, or perhaps an aristocrat or even a Zephyr.

If you want more modern you could get a vito (or even an older Beaugnier) that would be great horns.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks... unfortunately in Australia we have less options for alternatives. I've never seen a zephyr here, and the others you mentioned are pretty rare too. Unfortunately to get one from the USA adds a few hundred bucks in shipping... pretty much putting it out of my price range, even if it's only sold super cheap.
The other horn I have seen locally and could consider is a Karl Meyer serial number #A41xx. It's nearly double the price of the King, but has a neck. Any opinions on that option?
 

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I doubt very much that you’ll find a Zephyr for a couple hundred dollars.
If you’re looking for a tenor in need of an overhaul, I have a nice Dolnet Belair Silver plated for sale.
I’ve stripped out and sized all the pads but have too much on my plate at the moment to finish it.
I’m looking for $950 for it as is.
If you’re interested PM me and I’ll send you some pics.
I’m in Melbourne.
Nick.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Nick, I would be super interested but I only have a $300 budget at the moment. Thus wanting to buy a horn that really really needs work... I can do some repairs myself and delay the cost of what I have to do professionally. I'm not in any particular hurry so I will keep your dolnet in mind if I am still looking in a few months once I have more cash.... I was just wondering if either of these above mentioned options were a particularly good buy. I imagine that with a neck, the king would be... without, I don't think so. And I don't know enough about the Karl Meyer.
 

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I’d avoid the Modell III King, chances of finding a neck for this is very very slim.
Karl Meyer is a Stencil horn probably made by Orsi Italy.
I don’t believe they are worth much but perhaps it would play well enough.
I wouldn’t put too much money into it though as you’d never get it back if you were to sell.
$300 is a very tight budget but perhaps you might get lucky and find something like a Vito (Yamaha Made) Tenor for a little more.
On occasion I’ve seen some Amati Super Classic tenors for around that price.
While not highly sought after they do play well enough and have a nice tone.
 

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Thanks Nick, I would be super interested but I only have a $300 budget at the moment. Thus wanting to buy a horn that really really needs work... I can do some repairs myself and delay the cost of what I have to do professionally. I'm not in any particular hurry so I will keep your dolnet in mind if I am still looking in a few months once I have more cash.... I was just wondering if either of these above mentioned options were a particularly good buy. I imagine that with a neck, the king would be... without, I don't think so. And I don't know enough about the Karl Meyer.
You shouldn’t buy a saxophone without a neck. The chances to find a neck without a saxophones which will fit are really minimal.

There are many possibilities to find a playing saxophone for you minimal budget. They will be lesser appreciated brands. Finding a King Zephyr for that amount of money is impossible but you will be able to find a King 615 which is an unloved model of those which played well.

If you are in Australia( where are you in the world) B flat’s suggestion may hit the right spot (if you can up your budget) otherwise tell us where you are.
 

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Pass on the deal. A sax without a neck is a boat anchor on your budget. That not including a potential overhaul on the sax itself. Take your time and keep looking for something decent. Meanwhile throw a few dollars on a tune up of the bands house horn. Ask for the band to kick some help. Post a wanted ad at your local music or social media story. Dig and you’ll fine one. As a last resort find a sponser, go fund me, fans that like you (reason for tips). Practice time....on the street with the hat out. Earn while practicing with a small sign “ working to buy a better sax”
Best to your success!
PS
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks everyone. I contacted the seller and told him essentially what I had found out about the neck - including your comments here, and offered $50 for parts purposes only, which he declined. But at least now he knows and I"m not confused.

I am looking particularly for a good toned tenor with a vintage look - preferably something with a bigger sound than this Yamaha student. Which I just threw a good amount of money at in Feb - and the band pitched in a fair bit too. It's playable at the moment, but given what I see when I put a leak light down it - it could be better. I can't play anything softly on the lower octave without a LOT of difficulty (and I play a pretty soft mpc.) and given that we've already spent probably $600 on it in recent history, and I'm not in love with the horn, I'd rather buy another before I'm left with no choice.

I had my eye on an Amati and it was within my budget but the owner changed his mind about selling. I did like it a lot though. I will check out the Meyer and keep an eye out for a King 615. Thanks all!

Yes I'm in Australia (Qld to be precise.)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have also been wondering about this sax. Can anyone comment on what it might be?
I have emailed the store and they say the original owner said it was a selmer brand but could provide no proof. They also say that 3 different staff members have gone over the sax with a fine tooth comb and none can find any other names, serial numbers or markings on it. Apparently the engraved design partially seen on one of these photos looks a bit like a koi fish with no head.

Any ideas? I'm intrigued... and could probably stretch my budget to this, if I make an offer - only of course if it turns out to be something recognisable and good!
https://www.cashconverters.com.au/s...ments/wind-instruments/saxophone/003900320523
 

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Amati are decent and mostly unwanted saxophones,

like the aforementioned King 615, Conn 16M shooting star, Jupiters, Bundy(I and II) and so on (the list of not very popular horns is getting very large now that repairs tend to cost a lot more than the commercial value of any of these) these are horns which can be acquired at a pittance.

You can afford to be very choosy when it comes to a low budget saxophone because the sellers are often desperate.

Australia is a place where most people don’t get to have the benefit of many shops (and musical instruments are quite a bit more expensive than elsewhvere) , techs or cheap shipment.

this https://www.cashconverters.com.au/sh...e/003900320523
This horn may be a number of things ( that brace I see often on horns with many names and it may be an early Chinese copy of an Italian stencil ) But I would NOT spend my money on it
 

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Just to clarify, I was not implying that you could get a zephyr for $200.... but by the time you put money in for a neck and rebuild you probably could. Not sure in Australia. However, it seems like the best bet is to find a decent vito/Yamaha that might cost a little more than your budget.
 

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Aftermarket neck is available, usually less than $300 and better than stock ! Also most necks will fit the body tenon or get another neck tenon to fit. Of course I am saying this cuz I repair saxes and have the parts. Also I have a King Zephyr tenor but from the 60's. Too bad you are not in Canada.... I can sell for $1200 Modell 3 is much more desirable though ...
 

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Whoa there everyone!

This is NOT a "King" saxophone manufactured by the H.N. White Company in Cleveland or Eastlake Ohio. It is some kind of European model, probably a stencil. Or, as Milandro, points out, it could be a Chinese made semi-copy of something else.

At any rate, references to King Zephyrs, or Super 20s, are misplaced.
 

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Yes it's a Keilwerth tenor.
I had a modell III alto years ago.
It was a stunning horn with a great tone.
Had the side keys set at an angle.
Nothing like a Zephyr, Super 20 or any other King USA horn.
 

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Yes it's a Keilwerth tenor.
I had a modell III alto years ago.
It was a stunning horn with a great tone.
Had the side keys set at an angle.
Nothing like a Zephyr, Super 20 or any other King USA horn.
Actually I believe mine was a Modell I Tone King.
It was stenciled “Mignon” and had the way cool slanted side keys and sheet metal guards.
Rolled tone holes and micro tuner neck.
It was in stunning condition for such an early horn.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ugh - I am currently overhauling a Jupiter and never again! The lacquer does not behave normally and the tone holes each have a massive high spot at 10-11o'clock and 3 o'clock. Not at all a fan. (But thanks anyway.)

Yes I would have loved the modell III - it is a genuine keilwerth, not a copy or even a stencil (not that they are bad.) But the tenon is unusually small - to the extent that the shop I spoke to said they couldn't even find a tenon expander to fit inside the thing.

B Flat if you happen to have a neck for a Modell III (or actually, apparently a neck from any JKG King, New King or Tone King would likely work) then please let me know because I would jump at this horn in an instant if I found a neck.
 

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Ugh - I am currently overhauling a Jupiter and never again! The lacquer does not behave normally and the tone holes each have a massive high spot at 10-11o'clock and 3 o'clock. Not at all a fan. (But thanks anyway.)

Yes I would have loved the modell III - it is a genuine keilwerth, not a copy or even a stencil (not that they are bad.) But the tenon is unusually small - to the extent that the shop I spoke to said they couldn't even find a tenon expander to fit inside the thing.

B Flat if you happen to have a neck for a Modell III (or actually, apparently a neck from any JKG King, New King or Tone King would likely work) then please let me know because I would jump at this horn in an instant if I found a neck.
Sorry, I don’t have a neck or even know how you might come about one really.
I’ve never had a Jupiter tenor, but I did have a Jupiter Soprano for a while and thought it was actually a really good little horn for the money.
Mind you I didn’t do any work on it apart from replace a couple of pads and fix some leaks.
I’m sure that Modell III would be a great horn, but finding a neck for it could be next to impossible.
One possibly avenue for a replacement neck might be a Dorfler and Jorka Tenor.
They made horns that are close to identical to the New Kings.
You can sometimes pick these up fairly inexpensively.
They were stencilled under many names.
I used to have one called “La Sette” professional.
They’re actually nice horns in their own right.
As they were a copy of the Keilwerth New King, perhaps their necks may be close enough to work on the Modell III?
 
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