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JK "Best in the World" logo, "Made in CZ" rolled tone holes, full pearls Tone King Tenor 22XXX: JK or Amati?

5441 Views 31 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  frasermanx
I'm not sure if this is a Keilwerth or an Amati.
It has a Keilwerth SN, a yellow "tone king" catalin plastic mouthpiece with a Otto Link STM-type ligature and its bell is highly deco engraved, with a label "Tone King, Greene Music, Toronto" and I have a customs reciept dated 1959 with the horn. Pearl touches on every single key, including pinky table. G3 trill key 22xxx dates it to 1953 manufacture, which squares with previous owner's story of buying it a few years old in the 50's in Canada.
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Do you have pictures?

It's probably an Amati, since what you're describing sounds like the Keilwerth Toneking Series I's (i.e., similar to Amati Toneking), which are quite different from the Toneking Series III's that Keilwerth was making in the 1950's.

If you provide pictures, @Helen could probably tell you for certain which manufacturer made it.
Do you have pictures?

It's probably an Amati, since what you're describing sounds like the Keilwerth Toneking Series I's (i.e., similar to Amati Toneking), which are quite different from the Toneking Series III's that Keilwerth was making in the 1950's.

If you provide pictures, @Helen could probably tell you for certain which manufacturer made it.
New here, I will work on that ( need pic host) thanks!
New here, I will work on that ( need pic host) thanks!
You shouldn't need a pic host. You can just drag images into the message editor and they will be embedded in your post.
Julius Keilwerth (1894-1962) has been making saxophones for Oscar Adler since the 1920s and from 1925 on altos and tenors under his own name in Graslitz / Sudetengau, near today's German-Czech border. Until the war-related expropriation and the merger of all regional instrument makers in May 1945 under the name "Amati", almost 20,000 saxophones were manufactured in Graslitz. The Keilwerth family was expelled from Graslitz.
Production continued with the old employees, machines, sheet metal, etc. under the name Amati.
They continued to stamp the saxophones with "JK - best in the world" and called them "Toneking" or "New King", but were sued by Julius Keilwerth and lost the case.

So I remember the story and I own a horn from that time - stamped with "JK - best in the world" and engraved with "Amati Toneking".
Julius Keilwerth (1894-1962) has been making saxophones for Oscar Adler since the 1920s and from 1925 on altos and tenors under his own name in Graslitz / Sudetengau, near today's German-Czech border. Until the war-related expropriation and the merger of all regional instrument makers in May 1945 under the name "Amati", almost 20,000 saxophones were manufactured in Graslitz. The Keilwerth family was expelled from Graslitz.
Production continued with the old employees, machines, sheet metal, etc. under the name Amati.
They continued to stamp the saxophones with "JK - best in the world" and called them "Toneking" or "New King", but were sued by Julius Keilwerth and lost the case.

So I remember the story and I own a horn from that time - stamped with "JK - best in the world" and engraved with "Amati Toneking".
Yes, that's correct, but I'm pretty sure that the OP was already aware of that history. The knowledge that Keilwerth and Amati were both contemporaneously making JK-stamped horns called "Toneking" is implicit in his question.
Doesn't "made in CZ" kinda make it clear that it's Amati? Seriously asking.
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Doesn't "made in CZ" kinda make it clear that it's Amati? Seriously asking.
Good catch, I missed (forgot) about that because that information was in the title but not in the post itself.

By itself, it doesn't (Keilwerth Toneking I's were also made in Czechoslovakia), but combined with the serial no./ date of manufacture, it definitively places its manufacture with Amati.
It will be Amati, but the Amati factory was the Keilwerth factory, once nationalized it changed name, the first series of Amati and Lignatone saxophones were still carying the " best in te world " triangle shape

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Wasn't it Max Keilwerth that was associated with Oscar Adler? ? ?
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yes, but that is an entirely different type of saxophone.

If it bears JK ( Julius Keilwerth) best in the world logo, and then Czechoslovakia , this is not Max Keilwerth saxophone ( which would have a " Pure Tone " trademark)

The only saxophones that may have both, are either the Keilwerth made in Graslitz or the successive Amati-Lignatone made in the same factory once it was nationalized. Max Keilwerth made saxophones for other companies as well as for himself.


"
Julius Keilwerth (12.04.1894 - 14.11.1962) first apprenticed for the Kohlert company in Graslitz, Czechoslovakia. After this apprenticeship, Julius Keilwerth and his brother, Max, established a workshop in their home around 1920. They primarily manufactured saxophones for Adler and F.X. Hüller. The Julius Keilwerth company was founded in Graslitz in 1925, when Julius started making alto and tenor saxophones. Once these two saxophone types were extremely successful, he began making sopranos, baritones and, upon special order, bass saxes. Soon 100 employees worked in the Keilwerth factory, and an additional 50 were homeworkers. The Julius Keilwerth company became one of the largest saxophone manufacturers in Europe by the start of WWII, with approximately 150 workers. In 1930 he built a factory with a house at the Silberbacherstrasse 1348 (now Havlíčkova). In 1937 despite the crisis he extended the factory. In 1938 Julius Keilwerth bought the villa of Anton Richard Breinl, Lipova Ceste 17.



Keilwerth factory, Silberbacherstrasse 1348, Graslitz 1930 Former Keilwerth factory, Havlíčkova 1348, Kraslice Breinl villa where Julius Keilwerth lived till 1946

After WWII the family was forced to leave Graslitz, like most of the German speaking population in Bohemia. Most people were only allowed to take 50 kg (110 lbs) of luggage on the train with them. Julius Keilwerth, then aged 52, is mentioned on an expulsion list for train 15, wagon 33, on Sept 12th 1946 destination Bavaria. He went with his wife Franziska (28-10-1895-21-07-1971), son Josef (27), his wife Hilde (22) and the little Gerhardt (1).

Julius Keilwerth first went to Nordhessen and in 1947 settled down in Nauheim, near Frankfurt. Other instrument makers also had settled down in Nauheim, due to an active policy of the local authorities. On January 29, 1947, the Julius Keilwerth Company started its operations in the laundry room of the Bäckerei (bakery) Stelzer at Bahnhofstrasse 9, Nauheim. There they employed 5 people, and did saxophone repairs only.

The old Julius Keilwerth production facilities in Graslitz, now Kraslice, in 1948 became part of the Czech Amati collective. Amati was a forged merger of all regional competitors. The first saxophones that Amati sold were still stamped with the "JGK - Best in the World" trademark, had the model name 'Toneking' and had Julius Keilwerth serial numbers.

In 1949, the Keilwerth company moved into a new building at Königstädter Strasse 101 in Nauheim. Later the company also opened and maintained a subsidiary division on Helwigstrasse in Groß-Gerau, 5km from Nauheim. In 1953 Keilwerth had some 50 people at work (home workers included), making not only saxophones but also trumpets and trombones, and repairing all kinds of wind instruments. Most of them were old employees from Graslitz. In 1956 a cheese-making in Groß-Gerau was bought to give room for the metal wind instrument making. In 1962/1963 the Offenbacher Architektengemeinschaft Novotny & Mähner designed and built a new factory at the Königstädter Strasse 103, four pavillons with an inner court. Here the operations from Nauheim and Groß-Gerau were brought together in 1964.
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You shouldn't need a pic host. You can just drag images into the message editor and they will be embedded in your post.
Thanks, I'll do that
Sorry for the garbled presentation here, but this should suffice for identification
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Sorry for the garbled presentation here, but this should suffice for identification
Ya done well ! welcome to SOTW.
Nice tenor. Hope you're planning on playing it .

Site FAQ's are next to your Avatar picture upper right. Look for the three dots. Most of the necessary functions of the site you'll find there.

@milandro nice article thanks for posting. Is the factory still in Kraslice ?
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This horn from @josephtenor is undeniably an Amati , which, as multiple sources report, was one of the production post WWII when it continued in the Grasliz/Kraslice factory once it was nationalized by the new communist state.

see this OTHER one marked Amati (and also realize what I say when talking about your neck being pulled down @josephtenor )

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They are virtually identical to their pre war models made by JK.

The horn in question owned by @josephtenor is NOT in the best of states.

Next of having a pull down neck ( which can be easily fixed but which may leave the neck not precisely round) there are signs of this horn having developed some corrosion due to dampness (which may have affected some rods, talking of which the octave mechanism has a long rod clearly bent).

It is the luxury model with full pearls and mother of pearl extras on the Eb-C and left hand plateau, which makes this horn worth repairing.

Would it be the basic version , I would be seriously doubtful about that. They go for little money and the alto's often don't sell at all!

It also has the High D trill which we often see in bohemian horns.

@PigSquealer the Amati/Denak factory is somewhere in Kraslice/Grasliz in a different building. The company is undergoing some financial restructuring and has changed several hands in the last few years .

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@milandro Thanks for the additional information.
I just stumbled across one of your old posts with this video.
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But that is a modern Keilwerth manyfacture in Germany
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This horn from @josephtenor is undeniably an Amati , which, as multiple sources report, was one of the production post WWII when it continued in the Grasliz/Kraslice factory once it was nationalized by the new communist state.

see this OTHER one marked Amati (and also realize what I say when talking about your neck being pulled down @josephtenor )

View attachment 107386

They are virtually identical to their pre war models made by JK.

The horn in question owned by @josephtenor is NOT in the best of states.

Next of having a pull down neck ( which can be easily fixed but which may leave the neck not precisely round) there are signs of this horn having developed some corrosion due to dampness (which may have affected some rods, talking of which the octave mechanism has a long rod clearly bent).

It is the luxury model with full pearls and mother of pearl extras on the Eb-C and left hand plateau, which makes this horn worth repairing.

Would it be the basic version , I would be seriously doubtful about that. They go for little money and the alto's often don't sell at all!

It also has the High D trill which we often see in bohemian horns.

@PigSquealer the Amati/Denak factory is somewhere in Kraslice/Grasliz in a different building. The company is undergoing some financial restructuring and has changed several hands in the last few years .

View attachment 107385
This horn from @josephtenor is undeniably an Amati , which, as multiple sources report, was one of the production post WWII when it continued in the Grasliz/Kraslice factory once it was nationalized by the new communist state.

see this OTHER one marked Amati (and also realize what I say when talking about your neck being pulled down @josephtenor )

View attachment 107386

They are virtually identical to their pre war models made by JK.

The horn in question owned by @josephtenor is NOT in the best of states.

Next of having a pull down neck ( which can be easily fixed but which may leave the neck not precisely round) there are signs of this horn having developed some corrosion due to dampness (which may have affected some rods, talking of which the octave mechanism has a long rod clearly bent).

It is the luxury model with full pearls and mother of pearl extras on the Eb-C and left hand plateau, which makes this horn worth repairing.

Would it be the basic version , I would be seriously doubtful about that. They go for little money and the alto's often don't sell at all!

It also has the High D trill which we often see in bohemian horns.

@PigSquealer the Amati/Denak factory is somewhere in Kraslice/Grasliz in a different building. The company is undergoing some financial restructuring and has changed several hands in the last few years .

View attachment 107385
Thanks to all who commented here! My plans for this horn is to satisfy my need to profit from this find soley by shamelessly exploiting the treasure trove that turned up in the mouthpiece compartment of that case, and cleaning up the horn and having it overhauled to keep it as one of those "I can't believe no one thinks this is worth anything" horns
( like my True Tones, Beaugnier Vitos, etc)
It's a beautiful instrument. More JK than Amati by features, solidly built, rare in it's fancy appointments, and my guess is that I might like it as a player. Oh, and BTW, besides the mouthpieces in the case, there was a customs reciept from Canada dated 1959, when the previous owner emigrated to the US. He said he bought the horn used in a music store in Toronto, and played it in Polka bands to work his way through college. He's in his 80's now. One would have hoped that he would have cared for it better.
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