[Neil Sharpe]

"New York City's musicians' union has begun leafleting outside a major jazz club, the first salvo in what union leaders say is a campaign to gain pension benefits and a minimum wage for jazz artists..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/arts/music/jazz-musicians-campaign-for-pensions.html?_r=1&hp

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

It is about time! Musician Unions have become so weak of late.

B

 

[paulwl]

Of course, the profession in general is weak, even outside the unions. In 1999 I lost a nice NYC hotel job to Local 802, as the hotel could not justify scale pay, even for a trio. We got a bundle in settlement money, but only at the cost of the gig and its valuable exposure. (BTW, the venue is now a world-famous, full-scale nightclub.)

An argument could be made that all performing music artists need a pension plan, as the industry has been shrinking for so long that eventually there will only be a few hundred thousand elite pro performers for a nation of 1/3 billion.

 

[Grumps]

Well, there it is. The beginning of the end of jazz as we know it.

 

[rloyot]

Wow - in this era of pension cuts in the Public sector and with pensions in the Private sector a thing of the distant past the timing couldn't be worse. I wish musicians could do better but this isn't going to be the way - I bet more gigs are lost as a result of this

 

[Grumps]

I guess when you don't declare most of your income, you don't get that much social security.

I like the one guy who's 72 and says it's a sin that he has no pension. It's like dude, you should have been an accountant... or at least seen one about a Roth IRA.

 

[mascio]

I guess when you don't declare most of your income, you don't get that much social security.

I like the one guy who's 72 and says it's a sin that he has no pension. It's like dude, you should have been an accountant... or at least seen one about a Roth IRA.

You are so correct, but it's still a sin he has no pension. Just sayin'

 

[Grumps]

I've never met anyone who chose to be a professional jazz musician for the security.

 

[piwikiwi]

Stupid idea. Unions are only useful when they are dealing from a position of power,(when they can organize strikes for example) there aren't a lot of people that are going to care if all jazz musicians would go on strike, they will just hire other musicians.

 

[mascio]

Stupid idea. Unions are only useful when they are dealing from a position of power,(when they can organize strikes for example) there aren't a lot of people that are going to care if all jazz musicians would go on strike, they will just hire other musicians.

Does Las Vegas 1989 mean anything to anybody?

 

[rleitch]

IMO, the best thing a musicians union can do is educate its members on how to manage their finances--and be there for cases of emergency relief. OTOH, if it wanted to be creative and support the artists in the arts, the federal government could easily create and manage a no-fee mutual fund package that union members could contribute to through their locals. Unfortunately, the market is not exactly expanding right now, and with interest rates so low, there's really no way to make the contributions grow. The idea that they are going to get a defined pension plan is pretty crazy. My retirement plan is to work until I die.

 

[piwikiwi]

Does Las Vegas 1989 mean anything to anybody?

I was two years old in 1989

 

[playatsax]

Making a living at a luxury has it's risks (luxury boats are not selling either). Those that were paid in cash, didn't declare their "complete" income or failed to plan for the future are now asking others to pay the bill. While it is a great priviledge and hard work to be able to make a living playing, it doesn't remove the personal responsibility of planning for one's future just like any other occupation. Now that Local 802 is having problems, they go looking to increase their pool of donors, with costs going to employers and their customers. When those employers collapse, after passing costs to their customers (who will stop being patrons), the union will be "outraged" and the musicians will be looking for a 'bailout'. The person thinking it's a sin to not have a pension is committing a sin by not planning for retirement. I'm thinking of the term "self inflicted"

 

[mascio]

My retirement plan is to work until I die.

me too.

 

[Swampcabbage]

Also, bad timing considering all of the "right to work" issues as of late. The Union would probably do best to start serving its members in a way that is condusive to the current times.

Yes, I would say a majority of musicians have not claimed their income. This is the catch 22. No claim... no benefits. Sorry guys, that's the way it is. Want unemployment, health insurance, dental, vision, life, pensions, and the like... you have to start claiming your income. And you are going to be better served to claim ALL of it.

Most "elite" performers are teaching now just to get these things now.

 

[dogster]

Jazz is so unappreciated thanks to Justin Beiber and did I mention Kenny G lol

 

[RandyJ]

My "pension plan" started back in the 60's when I'd always take a portion of my earnings (from studio sessions, club dates, concert performances, all of them) and invest the money into mutual funds, stocks and a few bonds. Soon I became "self insured" and knew in my retirement I'd be able to do anything I want to!

 

[airmouton]

"I guess when you don't declare most of your income, you don't get that much social security."

Yes what delightful hypocrisy. This is an article alive with such colors. Interviewing 70-something Bernard Purdie - at a Carnegie Hall gig! - is a masterstroke of unintended irony.

 

[Woody Reed]

Making a living at a luxury has it's risks (luxury boats are not selling either). Those that were paid in cash, didn't declare their "complete" income or failed to plan for the future are now asking others to pay the bill. While it is a great priviledge and hard work to be able to make a living playing, it doesn't remove the personal responsibility of planning for one's future just like any other occupation. Now that Local 802 is having problems, they go looking to increase their pool of donors, with costs going to employers and their customers. When those employers collapse, after passing costs to their customers (who will stop being patrons), the union will be "outraged" and the musicians will be looking for a 'bailout'. The person thinking it's a sin to not have a pension is committing a sin by not planning for retirement. I'm thinking of the term "self inflicted"

While I may agree with your points in principle, it's quite clear you have no understanding at all of the workings of a "jazz musician". They don't look at it like "make a living doing.....". There needs to be a separation between business and art. Artists eat and sleep their craft. They live and react in the moment. A sort of suspended animation, out of touch with "suits" outside. I would dare to say it's impossible to make a living playing jazz clubs in NYC. Impossible! The numbers just can't add up. Until prohibition comes back, it probably won't get better either. I would also say that by the union attempting this and getting press on the subject, it will bring a much needed discussion and awareness of the problem.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I would also say that by the union attempting this and getting press on the subject, it will bring a much needed discussion and awareness of the problem.

I think this is the most significant angle.

The same might apply to poets (do they have a union?), painters, or Big Issue sellers (not sure about them).

If you work freelance, then it's up to you to think about pensions surely. In England there are tax benefits to being self employed, ie you can claim a lot more expenses than if you are employed.

Or is this is about jazz musicians who are in a position of permanent employment, although I didn't realise that existed it is possible if someone is in a "house band" I suppose.