[CarlHeanerd]

Over the years, I find that I have faced a quandary. I never seem to really ever feel at home on any jazz set up, finding them either too dull or bright for my taste, low dynamics challenging to articulate, or simply not right (one of the three). I don't seem to have this problem with classical pieces. While they sound differently, I can generally feel at home on all of them. I have begun to discover why: most of my playing and practicing is for classical solo and ensemble work, I don't play jazz literature often and therefore don't invest much time in practicing on my jazz setup. I'm too busy on the opposite end of the spectrum. My question to the forum is, are there any jazz pieces out there for us players who are used to playing classical setup for the vast majority of the time?

I'd like to avoid this constant switching around due to my lack of practice but rather, find something easy to play that fits my tonal concept, and that I feel at home on when I need it. I know there's no such thing as chops in a box, but my classical chops don't transition well to jazz, if you get what I mean. Anything to reduce that transition would be welcome. Do any other classical players experience this?

 

[Buck Laughlin]

Aren't you still in high school? Give it time -- patience is a mighty virtue. Think of yourself as a saxophone player, not just a "classical player." If you want to play jazz, play jazz with what you've got. Maybe you shouldn't have sold that Morgan. You might want to try finding another mouthpiece like that, but with a more narrow tip opening. That might be easier for you to switch back and forth from what I assume is your more closed "classical mouthpiece."

 

[CarlHeanerd]

My "classical" setup is a TL3 which measures, on paper, .069. It is possible that my Link is too open in comparison. Maybe something like a Brilhart, Selmer Soloist E, or a more Link 5* would work better.

Regardless, I do need to realize that I'm only 17. Also, equipment won't make me a better player.

 

[robbieg]

My "classical" setup is a TL3 which measures, on paper, .069. It is possible that my Link is too open in comparison. Maybe something like a Brilhart, Selmer Soloist E, or a more Link 5* would work better.

This was my first thought. I think you would be happier with something in the .080-.085 range. It'd be a lot less of a drastic change between the two.

 

[bandmommy]

My jazz piece IS my classical piece.
The only thing I ever change is my attitude!

 

[bruce bailey]

Selmer Super Session D or E. Not too open but a nice full workable sound.

 

[CarlHeanerd]

My jazz piece IS my classical piece.
The only thing I ever change is my attitude!

For me, switching helps me mentally make that transition. Also, I've never been totally satisfied with the one-fits-all pieces, I usually find that they're a jack at all trades but a master at none. Regardless, great advice as always

Selmer Super Session D or E. Not too open but a nice full workable sound.

They only come in H and I facings for tenor.

 

[robbieg]

They only come in H and I facings for tenor.

They come in J too I think, but that's going the wrong direction

Maybe a JodyJazz Classic 5 (.80) or JodyJazz HR* in C* (.80) or 5*(.85)?

 

[EgilF.]

Vandoren V16 A5M

 

[bandmommy]

For me, switching helps me mentally make that transition. Also, I've never been totally satisfied with the one-fits-all pieces, I usually find that they're a jack at all trades but a master at none. Regardless, great advice as always

Yours is a 'typical' response.
Once you have to play situations where you CAN'T switch pieces you'll be thankful for the ability to adjust only your attitude.
It's the player that is the 'Jack of all Trades, Master of None', not the mouthpiece.
Go ahead and play around with 'classical' and 'jazz' pieces, but continue to improve your 'personal' playing skills.
That's what is going to be of the most benifit to you as a player.

 

[Atonal]

Most of my high school students are using HR V16 T-6. The Jody Jazz HR* is another excellent choice.

 

[blue boy]

who do you listen to for your "tonal concept" on tenor?

use youtube and hit up the classic players and listen, listen, listen. Then transcribe/hit some long tones and try to refine your concept in your head...then the sound breakthrough will come. pretty easy huh?

Coltrane, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Stan Getz, Hank Mobley, Harold Land, and many, many others...who do you like?

 

[CarlHeanerd]

Vandoren V16 A5M

Tenor.

Yours is a 'typical' response.
Once you have to play situations where you CAN'T switch pieces you'll be thankful for the ability to adjust only your attitude.
It's the player that is the 'Jack of all Trades, Master of None', not the mouthpiece.
Go ahead and play around with 'classical' and 'jazz' pieces, but continue to improve your 'personal' playing skills.
That's what is going to be of the most benifit to you as a player.

Well said. I do long tones every day, rehearse scales, dynamic terraces, etudes, and am working on solo pieces in order to prepare for college saxophone studio. I don't give jazz this much love, so it accounts for much of my weakness in the genre. I haven't had much playing exposure to it. I'd like to change that in college.

Most of my high school students are using HR V16 T-6. The Jody Jazz HR* is another excellent choice.

I tried the V16 T6 for a while and didn't care for it, it seemed rather harsh on a whole. It measures ~.098 too, so that doesn't really help me here. I'll keep the Jody Jazz in mind.

who do you listen to for your "tonal concept" on tenor?

use youtube and hit up the classic players and listen, listen, listen. Then transcribe/hit some long tones and try to refine your concept in your head...then the sound breakthrough will come. pretty easy huh?

Coltrane, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Stan Getz, Hank Mobley, Harold Land, and many, many others...who do you like?

My top influences are Getz, Sonny, and Coltrane in that order. My favorite Getz sound is the "Captain Marvel" album, Sonny the "Saxophone Colossus" album, and Coltrane the "Giant Steps" album. Right now I'm slowly working on "You Don't Know What Love Is", the Rollins piece.

 

[blue boy]

Maybe try a Brilhart to get closer to Getz in a 6 to 6*

 

[Kelpie]

Second on the Brilhart. It's a good piece for not a lot of $$$.

 

[birdlives1955]

i think sometimes it's about finding a good reed match for a jazz set-up that makes it feel comfortable (or uncomfortable with the wrong reed). Obviously for classical playing, the standard set-up is a fairly dark mouthpiece design in a closed tip opening with harder classical-cut reeds (generally blue box or Rico Grand Concert or something similar). For jazz set-ups though, it's really important to make sure you've got the right reed, usually a jazz cut reed if you're using a medium-to-large tip opening (I'm thinking .090"-.110" here, although jazz pieces can go all the way up to much larger sizes). I've found Rico Select Jazz to work great on jazz tenor mouthpieces, but for me Lavoz work better on alto... Just something to think about, especially if you realize you're trying to match blue-box classical reeds with a jazz mouthpiece, which generally never works for me, although I do have at least 2 friends I can think of that are smokin players that do this.

As far as a jazz mouthpiece that might feel comfortable for a classical player - I do think they are two different animals and the jazz pieces do just have a different set of harmonics and resistance variances. However, I recently experimented with opening up a regular Selmer C* S80 standard alto mouthpiece to about a Meyer #6 size of .076", and when using a LaVoz med-hard jazz reed on it it did play really nicely and much like a jazz piece. The harmonic spectrum sorta leans more towards the darker, more focused end of things since the chamber was left alone.

That might be something to think about, a larger tip opening on a classical mouthpiece. Basically, that's what a Selmer Soloist is when you open it up. Those could be used for classical, but at the larger tip openings they make great jazz pieces.

In terms of tip openings, a medium-to-small tip opening is going to be closer to what a classical mouthpiece offers simply because almost every classical piece I have ever seen has a really small tip opening. However, a medium tip opening tenor mouthpiece (.085"-.095") can feel really nice when paired with a jazz reed of medium or medium-hard strength, and might feel pretty close to the resistance of a small-tip classical mouthpiece with a 3 1/2 blue box or Rico Grand Concert reed. If you have a spare Selmer S80 C* sitting around somewhere (like the ones that come with many horns), those can be opened up to larger sizes.

Otto Link HR's can be found cheaply in small sizes though, around here a lot actually. You could post a wanted ad in the for sale forums.

 

[CarlHeanerd]

i think sometimes it's about finding a good reed match for a jazz set-up that makes it feel comfortable (or uncomfortable with the wrong reed). Obviously for classical playing, the standard set-up is a fairly dark mouthpiece design in a closed tip opening with harder classical-cut reeds (generally blue box or Rico Grand Concert or something similar). For jazz set-ups though, it's really important to make sure you've got the right reed, usually a jazz cut reed if you're using a medium-to-large tip opening (I'm thinking .090"-.110" here, although jazz pieces can go all the way up to much larger sizes). I've found Rico Select Jazz to work great on jazz tenor mouthpieces, but for me Lavoz work better on alto... Just something to think about, especially if you realize you're trying to match blue-box classical reeds with a jazz mouthpiece, which generally never works for me, although I do have at least 2 friends I can think of that are smokin players that do this.

My signature indicates that I play a JAVA 3 on my Link, currently. I don't think it's the reed, I've never had great success with RSJ either.

As far as a jazz mouthpiece that might feel comfortable for a classical player - I do think they are two different animals and the jazz pieces do just have a different set of harmonics and resistance variances. However, I recently experimented with opening up a regular Selmer C* S80 standard alto mouthpiece to about a Meyer #6 size of .076", and when using a LaVoz med-hard jazz reed on it it did play really nicely and much like a jazz piece. The harmonic spectrum sorta leans more towards the darker, more focused end of things since the chamber was left alone.

What of the baffle? I'm curious simply on a design plane, I have played an untouched Selmer Soloist-style from the 70's in an H (.110) facing before. It was interesting.

That might be something to think about, a larger tip opening on a classical mouthpiece. Basically, that's what a Selmer Soloist is when you open it up. Those could be used for classical, but at the larger tip openings they make great jazz pieces.

In terms of tip openings, a medium-to-small tip opening is going to be closer to what a classical mouthpiece offers simply because almost every classical piece I have ever seen has a really small tip opening. However, a medium tip opening tenor mouthpiece (.085"-.095") can feel really nice when paired with a jazz reed of medium or medium-hard strength, and might feel pretty close to the resistance of a small-tip classical mouthpiece with a 3 1/2 blue box or Rico Grand Concert reed. If you have a spare Selmer S80 C* sitting around somewhere (like the ones that come with many horns), those can be opened up to larger sizes.

Otto Link HR's can be found cheaply in small sizes though, around here a lot actually. You could post a wanted ad in the for sale forums.

Someone offered me a New Vintage Slant Link 5* for my current STM 6*, I think if it looks up to shape, I'm going to trade it.

Responses embedded in quote above.

 

[birdlives1955]

oh sorry, didn't see that before about your reed... yeah about the baffle, that has a lot to do with it too - when a piece is opened the baffle usually comes up some too unless you make a point to file it way back down. stock, i don't know if those Selmer pieces were set-up with a jazz sax sound in mind. Sonny Rollins in the early 60's and Joe Henderson throughout his career sure did sound great on their Soloists, although who knows if they had work done on them or not. the larger roll-over baffle will give the piece a little more zing & power... baffles can be built-up, especially when opening up a smaller tipped piece to a larger size. but chamber shape and chamber volume have a huge amount to do with the sound as well. especially straight and squared-off sidewalls vs. round sidewalls, and square or horseshoe chambers vs. round ones... i'm just kind of generalizing, there's a lot of factors at play.

also, embouchure style makes a big difference... lip rolled in vs. lip rolled out... i'm sure you'll find something that makes you comfortable. the NVS pieces are very nice, with a good amount of projection outta the box, and you might like the hard rubber better than the metal if you're coming from a hard rubber classical piece. cheers.

 

[CarlHeanerd]

Went with the 5* NVS, fits the bill nicely.

 

[area51recording]

Most of my high school students are using HR V16 T-6. The Jody Jazz HR* is another excellent choice.

I've been playing a V16 T6 for a while now.....real nice piece that's very versatile tone-wise. I switched from a Morgan 7L that I liked a lot but never felt right with it in situations where I needed to be a bit brighter in. The V16 sounds nice and dark when needed but also gets a nice tone when pushed a bit...