jazz messenger tune
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i mean... not trying to get over anyone beliefs, and i'm not trying to be offensive in any way... it's just that this tune doesn't deserve other name different than "tenor madness"... this in NOT a contrafact imo... open to opinions though..
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then you're right... it isn't tenor madness neither... so it should not have sonny name on it...
btw... i will transcribe that cat's solo :bluewink:
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Kenny Dorham also recorded it under the name Royal Roost.
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Horace -- Man, does he play. And Kenny and Hank, just blowin' away. While behind them is Art, guiding their way. Wow, what more can you say.
As to song titles: The same tune by any other name sounds just as sweet.
As to song titles: The same tune by any other name sounds just as sweet.
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I understand your point and it is a valid one. I just meant that from a strictly listening standpoint it's mostly moot, although for historical purposes it is something to be curious about. If anyone would really be concerned about composing credit it would be Kenny Clarke, since Sonny seems to have gotten the major fame for that tune, although I doubt very much in the way of royalties.
Here's the Rue Chaptal recording that SIB1707 mentioned above, and as one can see in the video, the label credits Clarke. That was recorded in 1946 which predates Sonny's version by 10 years. However, since Klook has been dead for 26 years and probably doesn't care, it's kind of late in the game for changing the attribution, unless his descendents cared about it.
I'm looking at the original record of Tenor Madness right now (had it since about 1961) and yes the song has that same title and is credited to Sonny right there in black on the yellow Prestige label. (It also says "John Coltrane, Tenor -- Guest")
Clearly someone at Prestige gave the composing credit to Sonny, so what are the possible reasons? Either, a) Sonny actually said he wrote the tune and took credit for it, b) Bob Weinstock, Rudy Van Gelder, or someone else at Prestige mistakenly gave him credit, or c) something else. However, how does one find out?
Other than Sonny himself, Bob Weinstock and everyone who played on the Tenor Madness sessions is dead and not talking. So, I suppose one could write Sonny and ask him directly about that, and who knows, he might be willing to explain it. Barring that, Rudy Van Gelder is the only other person still alive who was involved with the Prestige sessions and might know something about the subject. For a jazz historian it might be worth it to try and ask Sonny and/or him about it.
Me, I just like the tune and enjoy listening to all these versions of it.
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Roman was fairly active in the 80's and 90's in Europe. He played in the Vienna Art Orchestra for a period. He was always a very excellent player. There are many excellent players in europe that never received much American exposure. Much like the many great local players who remain local.
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I never thought of that tune being "odd", it's been around for a long time and certainly not unusual for a composition going through several "names".
My favorite version is Dexter Gordon's, great solo (even though he would change it up through the years he played it) and if you play this song it does have fine changes to solo on.
JR
My favorite version is Dexter Gordon's, great solo (even though he would change it up through the years he played it) and if you play this song it does have fine changes to solo on.
JR
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Yeah, Roman is one of the best over here in Switzerland. Unfortunately he doesn't play much anymore. He leads his own Jazzfestival now in Frauenfeld.
Another sick track with Roman and two other Swiss cats.
http://www.schwallerjazz.ch/media/swiss tenors/four-four.mp3
Order of solos:
Domenic Landolf (my teacher...)
Andy Scherrer
Roman Schwaller
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Now my interest is piqued, contrary to what I said earlier. Searching around I see that Rue Chaptal was also issued on two Fats Navarro albums, although the actual recording was from the same session released on the above Kenny Clarke album. On the Fats Navarro page of the Jazz Disco Project they list the title as Rue Chantal (Royal Roost) although in the YouTube video it is titled only Royal Roost. Anyway, it's on a compilation set call BeBop Boys and also on The Fats Navarro Story. As you can see on the page from the link below, the composing credit on that album is given to Kenny Clarke. So that makes at minimum 2 different albums predating Tenor Madness which credit Kenny Clarke and seem to confirm that Sonny shouldn't have been credited on his Prestige album.
http://music.aol.ca/song/fats-navarro/rue-chaptal/3383037
http://music.aol.ca/song/fats-navarro/rue-chaptal/3383037
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