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So I take it that he won't be playing any Jazz festivals anymore? :twisted:
 

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"Jazz musicians have accepted the idea that it’s OK to be poor"
Eehehe :mrgreen:
 

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He really personifies a lot of things that i do not like in jazz...or maybe he is just not cool :)
 

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Oh wow. That really made my day. While he is being poetic, he couldn't be a lot more to the point on this one, holy crap.
Ok, he is being extreme, but it's well written and it holds a lot of truth.
Then again, his experience might differ from mine a lot, so he might be saying something I do not even understand with some sentences.

Two of my favourite lines:
"The very fact that so many people are holding on to this idea of what Jazz is supposed to be is exactly what makes it not cool."
- Nothing to add.

"In order for it to be true, one must live it."
- Not very original but true, none the less. So many people with an emphasis on studying it instead of living it. That isn't bad in itself, it makes for many well studied, highly proficient people. But to be cool, it has to be culturally relevant. It has to move people. All people. Young people. Creative people. Jazz once did that. Nowadays? Well, anytime I hear musicians play that really move me, I hesitate to call them jazz musicians, since they seem to have broken free of that label. Colin Stetson, Steve Coleman, Evan Parker come to mind.
 

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It's interesting to hear what Sonny has to say about Jazz in this interview: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=170581 . He still playes because of Jazz.

It's interesting to hear the views from both gentleman, I think, because it seems to show what a different thing Jazz still is in the US as compared to Europe. I always loved jazz (I'm pretty passionate about it actually), but was well aware of it being a form of musical expression that was foreign. The people who owned Jazz lived across the ocean, were mostly black (I still remember Sam Rivers saying in an interview in the mid 70ies that for a black man to do something that a white man couldn't do better was either to be a heart surgeon or a jazz musician), and were part of this musical environment of clubs and jam sessions, people handing down the art from generation to generation. Nothing like that was around here in Holland - and thinking of Jazz in terms of Nicholas Paytons was not an issue over here. And now, even with the immediate availability of any piece of music you want at any moment, making Jazz just this little flavour among many, someone like Nicholas Payton feels that he should write this bitter piece - as if it matters. In any other place than America I would have thought it was completely anachronistic to put something down in writing like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Self repentant...
 

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Id rather eat a burger and fries, but in the interests of the OP, and so i dont hijack this thread i will now leave.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You're a true gentlemen, Evan1. No need to leave early.

Id rather eat a burger and fries, but in the interests of the OP, and so i dont hijack this thread i will now leave.
 

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I cant work out whether thats sarcasm or you really miss me. I agree with one thing in that diatribe of nothingness. "Silence is cool." - NP should take note of this and write less.
 

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So I take it that he won't be playing any Jazz festivals anymore? :twisted:
What jazz musician does play "Jazz" festivals anymore? It seems to be pretty broad brush they stroke when they (whoever "they" are) say Jazz festival....

I agree, the word "Jazz" to describe this direction of music is wrong (I guess unless your playing Jazz music from '59 back).... but there is definitely a forward progression in improvised music whether we notice it or not!
 

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Certain musicians have complained about the term Jazz since the 30s. It is a bit curious that some still chafe at the term since all of the pejorative meanings have passed out of usage more than a generation ago. I think what is killing the music is not the label we put on it but the systematic dumbing down of public and the changing roll of popular music in our society. What once was art and high expression is now a commodity, a backing jingle for commerce or a pattern of bits to be fought over in a file sharing case.
Finding a way to expand the listener base is key to the future of the music. Is the answer to balance the commercially shaped tastes of the younger listen public with the expressive core of the music? Or does that only further dissolve the essence of what makes jazz special creating just another fusion...mush...
Another way to think about it is to ask ourselves why is it that Kind of Blue or Blue Trane or Brubeck Take Five outsells any thing that Mr Payton or his neowhatever contemporaries have done...
 

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What jazz musician does play "Jazz" festivals anymore? It seems to be pretty broad brush they stroke when they (whoever "they" are) say Jazz festival....

I agree, the word "Jazz" to describe this direction of music is wrong (I guess unless your playing Jazz music from '59 back).... but there is definitely a forward progression in improvised music whether we notice it or not!
Steady progress to be even more esoteric and nerdy then before
 

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When you're truly creating you don't have time to think about what to call it.

Who thinks of what they'll name the baby while they're ****ing?
That's funny and maybe even true :mrgreen:!
 

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He really personifies a lot of things that i do not like in jazz...or maybe he is just not cool :)
I met him a couple of years ago when he was touring for Blue Note 70th. He is completely condescending and a most ungraceful man.

His playing is obviously much better than mine but his attitude stinks!

Not a fan, can you tell?

B
 

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What a load of crap. If Mr. Payton actually believes the drivel he wrote, he is a complete fool.
 
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