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Discussion Starter #1
Was offered a standing bari gig - still having the embouchure issues referenced in the past. Tip opening is a big factor here. Played last gig on a Yani HR 5 with Rico 3.5 - nice sound - not quite enough volume. Tried my drawer full of pieces, and seems like I need to stay at 90 -ish tip opening for now. My Yani 7 metal (.098) with Rico 2.5 is too much for now.

Just looking for a good but cheap route for more volume. Seems like the only option is a Runyon custom. I've heard their tip openings aren't accurate - is this true? If so, which opening is closest to .090?

Or possibly, different reeds on the current piece, ie Plasticovers?

Have a Berg 85/1 from the 80's that sounds more like a duck call....

Help!

Seems like a lot of members like the Rico pieces, but I've read a lot of negatives related to intonation on these pieces.
 

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Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2008
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Isn't a Vandoren BL4 in that tip opening range? Might be worth a try.

If you want a Berg in that tip range, try to find a #2 or #3 chamber.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Merlin - was editing my post when you responded. I thought of the BL4 - price is an issue - didnt want to spend $200 for what's hopefully a tempory situation. None on Ebay right now.
 

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let me search through my mouthpiece drawer and I'll probably find something that range for you. Your 7 at 98 is too big but the 5 which is a .9 is not loud enough? I'll start digging through... Can you try the 7 with a Rico 2? I'm a fairly decent bari player and play bari primarily, and I play a 2.5 Rico on my 105, but that's only to get ridonkulous amounts of volume for the big band I play with. Given my choice I'd be back on a 2 ish if it was stable at the loud volumes.
I'd definitely try the two, and I'll check the drawer to see what I've got in the cheap end of the range
 

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I've got a Brilhart Ebolin Special that may work. Smaller tip ish, I think in the 85 range but doesn't sound like a duck call...
 

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Kini, I have a BL4 I'd consider selling, but I'm not sure that's what you need. It is not a loud piece, at least when I play it. My Tenney TE7 is louder, and my Hite louder still.
 

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Is that Berg 85/1 a metal Berg? Either way, experiment with reed selections. I would get about 2 - 4 of any you can get 2 - 4. The Vandoren line would be a great place to start. Brancher is another good Bari sax reed. Also, try the Rico Jazz Select.

With the Rico Jazz Select and the Vandoren ZZs go a half strength higher than you would normally use.

I have played Baritone Saxophone exclusively for the last 30 years. I play on a Berg 130/? with Vandoren reeds, 2.5-4. depending on the humidity and my lip. A more open mouthpiece will give you the power that you need. I recommend for all my high school sax students who are switching from alto or tenor to bari to start with a 110 tip opening with a 2.5 to 3 reed. I have them blow as loud as they can for a month during their practice times. After about three weeks, they start to get some sound going.

I think you need to worry less about things like intonation and range and just aim for playing as loud as you can for as long as you can. You will need to breath a lot more often, but I think you will begin to get the breath support you need to play bari, especially if you are coming from another sax like alto.

Good luck with this.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks to everyone for the reply - I'm going to try the weaker strength reeds first - was initially worried about that causing pitch issues.

jmathesonjr - Its a HR piece, purchased in '87 from the big Schmitt music in downtown MPLS - that had tons of stuff from "way back when" - the box is blue and white, and I recall it looking old when i got it - possibly NOS?. During that visit I also got a Selmer branded LP of Marcel Mule recordings. Prior to this injury I played a B75 with Rico 2.5 - not a newbie to bari, but unfamiliar with appropriate mouthpiece choices in that tip range. Thanks..
 

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Have you try the Berg with a new reed? Sometimes, moving from piece to piece with the same reed, kill it very fast. Also a too soft reed can cause your intonation to go everywhere. I have a .090" Berg and a refaced .098" both SS/2/sms. The 90 have a lot less volume, but closer opening make the articulation very much easier and it take less air to fill the tube, especialy if the bari it's not your main horn. With the .98" I play RJS filed 3M or practice with a legere 2 1/2 (it's less costly in the long run, specialy if you try different Mpc). The legere reed help control the sound even if the facing are a bit off. The HR being a tad darker, the #1 chamber being brighter,can compensate a little for your sound presence. Your Yana metal are not very open and it may be defective, usualy the 100-105 are on the soft side for a bari. A good friend of mine play a lot the bari as a professional "Michel Côté" aka "Lapon Balèze", he never play higher than a .105" with is HR/2 Berg.
www.bluetracks.ca/album122.html
 

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Seems like the only option is a Runyon custom. I've heard their tip openings aren't accurate - is this true? If so, which opening is closest to .090?
Runyon's tip openings aren't just routinely off by .015", I'd call them LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE. Unless you're a mouthpiece mechanic, avoid them.
 

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runyon uses a differnt number system and there facings are usually quite good . cant find a chart? look on there website. try plasticovers on that berg first-might suprize you.
 

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Avoid Runyons? What? I've never played one that had a bad facing. I've played em on SATB in different models.. I play a delrin Quantum 12 on bari and that's the ticket for me. Lots of the older bari players played on Runyons, give a Custom a shot in a moderate opening. They're cheap too.
 

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runyon uses a differnt number system and there facings are usually quite good . cant find a chart? look on there website. try plasticovers on that berg first-might suprize you.
I had both a quantum 7 and a custom 5 with a tip opening like my BL .105 metal mpc. Please tell me what chart says that. I'm not big leagues where I can go .125, .130 and not notice .010 too much or too little, especially with the plastic reeds I prefer.

I could start a new thread for my question but it blends in too well with this one. I play Jumbo Java A35 and Jumbo Java T45... I badly need a bari mpc at .090 (preferably plastic/hr) with a baffle like the Jumbo Javas, but I can't keep spending money ordering and returning Runyons. What should I try?
 

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Bergs vary more in tip opening than Runyons do. Most Bergs measure .010" under what they are marked. But I have seen them as much as .025" smaller and .010" bigger than marked. A .090" Runyon Quantum is a 7 on bari. But I would go for at least a 10 = .105". It is an easy blow for the average player IMO. Smaller tips on the Quantum sound extra bright and bratty.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
To be clear, I wasn't commenting on Runyon quality, the statement I read is that their actual tip openings aren't as advertised - and was only trying to clear that up. To Mojo's comment, I already have a Yani metal 7 (.098) that is too big right now - but I've also found the metals to be relatively more resistant. I also tried Saxplayers recommendation of going to a Rico 2 on the Yani - the tone is not great and I'm very flat even when the mouthpiece is pushed all the way in. After doing some web searching that led me back to an SOTW thread, I think I'm going to try a Rico M5. Again, this is hopefully a temporary situation, and I can get back to my B75.
 

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How are they "not as advertised"? That is calling them inconsistent. If you expect their 7 to be a Link 7 then no, it will not be the same. Not all brands follow a standardized system. If you end up liking the Metalite try a Quantum in the future.. they've got a similar vibe but a fatter more polished tone. As mentioned above I have a 12 and it blows super easy with a Fibracell 3, you'd probably like something more like a 10. Metal mouthpieces aren't more resistant for the record either. Its all a design issue. Sounds like you need to hook up with a teacher or get the horn checked out, I suspect there are underlying issues here that have nothing to do with mouthpieces.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Joe I don't know how you did it, but you essentially responded to series of statements I didn't make.
How are they "not as advertised"? That is calling them inconsistent.
I didn't call them anything - I said that I heard on this forum that the tip openings run smaller than advertised, and was trying to confirm if that was true or not. I've also seen it stated on this forum that Links run few thousands of an inch, ie a tenor 5 that should be 0.080 might be 0.077, etc. Incosistency is high variablility between pieces, my question does not specifically correlate to inconsistency.

If you expect their 7 to be a Link 7 then no, it will not be the same. Not all brands follow a standardized system.
I never mentioned the Link system or any expectations around what a 7 is, etc.

Metal mouthpieces aren't more resistant for the record either. Its all a design issue.
I was referring specifically to the Yani metal, which is in my experience is a more resistant mouthpiece. The metal qualifier is used to differentiate from the Yani HR which is also mentioned above.

Sounds like you need to hook up with a teacher or get the horn checked out, I suspect there are underlying issues here that have nothing to do with mouthpieces.
Absolutely - which is exactly why I mentioned "embouchure issue" in the very first sentence!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Update - Ordered Runyon 7 8 and 9 to try - seems like the 9 with the spoiler will work with Rico 2.5 reeds. Also - interestingly - I tried La Vox MS on my B75 (108) which played much easier than on my Yani metal 7 which is a 98.
 

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The Runyon Custom is a nice all around bari piece and should work nicely for you in a smaller tip size, however, I'm not sure you are going to get the volume you are hoping for in that small a tip size. Regardless, they are relatively inexpensive and play nicely.
 
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