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Just a guy who plays saxophone.
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Discussion Starter #1
I have a Raven tenor with a two different fatnecks (special ordered both, one iced black and one unlacquered). Neither came with the horn, as they were not yet making them widely available when I bought my sax in 2006.

Well, to my problem: I am having issues with spit/ condensation coming down through the neck octave pip and causing problems with my sound. You know, when it opens, there is a bit of water that stays between the pad and the hole. It makes the octave A and above sound buzzy as the airstream fights to release through the water.

I tried different mouthpieces, and it does make a difference...though I don't know why. It is very noticeable with the stock piece (5 and 7), and a saxscape prototype xtra dark .102. So bad I can't play with a link tonemaster 6* (don't like the link anyway), and least notable with either of my Francois Louis Spectruoso pieces (SP235 and ML 235). My favorite piece to play is the Saxscape...though more open than I am used to, I just got it and IT IS KILLER!

The sound through the fatneck speaks a lot more to my concept than the regular necks...they just seem to open up the horn and make it way more flexible and rich sounding.

So, I guess I am wondering if anyone else has noticed this? Has anyone found a reasonable fix (and don't say buy a Selmer or JK:tsk:)? Any ideas? It is a little tiresome "blowing out" the octave pip every few minutes.

Thank you! Maybe someone from Cannonball will chime in: Ryan? Randall? Tevis? I know you are out there...:hello2:

I have ALWAYS had great experiences with Cannonball's customer service. If I don't come up with something here in the next few days, maybe I will shoot them an email and pass along my results to you all.
 

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Since we are on this topic, could anyone clarify whether the actual fatneck is the silver one with the underslung octave pip? I noticed that many BB or SS tenors comes with two necks, but the earlier ones usually had a silver colored one, which was with the normal octave pip mechanism. It seems like the 'fatneck' was only developed recently, and these always have the underslung octave mechanism - is this correct?
 

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Condensation will form inside the pip tube, just as it forms everywhere else, and then gravity will cause it to puddle on the pad. Put the register hole on the top of the neck tube.
 

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Just a guy who plays saxophone.
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Discussion Starter #4
MM, I know that is the logical fix, but how expensive would something like that be to rig up? And the placement of the new register hole would have to be just right...

Z, The stone series alto and tenors come with a matching regular neck and a silver fatneck (as far as I know), but you can order them in any of the regular Cannonball finishes.
 

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Z, The stone series alto and tenors come with a matching regular neck and a silver fatneck (as far as I know), but you can order them in any of the regular Cannonball finishes.
Thanks a lot for the clarification. What I wanted to know was do the fatnecks come in underslung as well as normal 'pip on top' neck styles? Because at their site, and in videos I've seen, like the Don Menza clip on Youtube, the fatnecks there all have underslung octave keys, where the pip is on the underside of the neck. So the earlier Big Bells and Stone Series cam with two necks, but no underslung necks - so were this simply two necks in different materials, or were all the second necks (usually in silver) fatnecks?

For example, this Ebay Raven clearly has the new fatneck with the underslung mechanism :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130460630289&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

whereas this other Raven has the older normal style neck, which I suspect is not a fatneck :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220736503818&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

As to your problem with the spit collecting in your fatnecks, are these the underslung ones, or the normal ones?
 

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Just a guy who plays saxophone.
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Discussion Starter #6
The fatneck is the one with the underslung mechanism. Before the fatneck, the BBGS and BBSS just came with a matching neck and a silver neck. The vintage series come with just one matching neck.
 

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All of the Fat Necks have the octave vent on the underside of the neck. That is what distinguishes that design from the regular necks. Ideally the moisture inside the neck should pass around the tube that provides the octave vent and not collect inside to get on the pad. I am not sure how high the tube extends, but it should provide some protection against moisture collecting in the vent. My suggestion would be to be aware of the position and angle of the sax both when you are playing and when you set it down. That is what clarinet players have to do to prevent water in the A key tonehole.

If this is a recurring problem, I'm sure the Cannonball staff have heard of it before and would be happy to answer any questions an owner might have.
 

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The fatneck is the one with the underslung mechanism. Before the fatneck, the BBGS and BBSS just came with a matching neck and a silver neck. The vintage series come with just one matching neck.
Thank you for that answer which exactly clarifies my question. I had also guessed that fatnecks only had underslung mechanisms but just wanted to check. Now that I think of it, it would seem having the octave pip at the bottom of the neck would tend to make the saliva pool there, more so than with a normal sited octave pip on the top. Perhaps this is the reason why it is not more widely adopted by sax manufacturers? But anyway, I am not trying to get into this discussion, and good luck with finding a solution to your problem.
 

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Is this something to do with the angle you hold the sax at? I play all the time with the fat, under-slung neck and have never experienced moisture coming out of the octave pip - out of the left-hand keys yes, but that's where you might expect it. I know that I play mostly head-down with the sax angled back so I guess the moisture just runs straight past the pip and down into the horn. Just guessing, but maybe you hold the sax out straight and upright so the moisture can collect in the neck?
 

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Just a guy who plays saxophone.
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Discussion Starter #10
I would guess it does have something to do with my physiology. I have a cross-bite (my teeth meet edge to edge), as opposed to the norm which is a slight overbite. I also have a rather large lower lip. This means that I have to hold my sax more out in front as to not take in too much mouthpiece. On alto, this isn't a problem at all. On tenor (my main voice) it makes it more difficult to play in sitting...I have not been able to play some saxes due to the neck angle making it nearly impossible to position the sax appropriately.

There is one bonus to having this physical make-up: A lot of hard rubber pieces would be far to large to fit in my mouth, but because I have to take in less than most people, the larger profile pieces aren't too bad for me.

I think I will try angling the sax a little more and turning the mouthpiece to meet me...maybe this will help, as the tube will not be in so much of a vertical position?
 

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@swperry1

This issue with the fat neck octave pip is not common. In fact no one here has ever heard of anyone having a problem with it. This is actually a very common problem on the body octave tubes of all saxophones if the octave pad height is not adjusted correctly. I'm suspecting that that pad is set up to not open enough or rather, it's set up to open too closely to the pip. The octave mechanism is designed to operate properly with slightly more opening space than the pip on top design. This should alleviate the issue of the water staying between the pad and the pip and if there is any condensation it will simply run off. You can adjust the height of the pad opening with a screw driver, or simply bend the key a bit.

I play on a fat neck almost exclusively, and I have never had that happen. Hope that helps. PM me if I can be of further assistance.

Randal
Cannonball
 

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Just a guy who plays saxophone.
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Discussion Starter #12
Randal,
Thank you, I will try this fix out. Though holding the horn at a slightly different angle did seem to work.

Unfortunately, I didn't buy it from my usual shop at home. I instead ordered it from a shop in Texas near where I was working at the time. They really had no idea what they were dealing with ordering this neck for me, as I had to do all the email correspondence with Cannonball myself. I played a bunch of well overpriced (IMHO) horns from Cannonball, Yamaha and Selmer that all left a lot to be desired in the set-up department. I was SO glad the neck fit my Raven without adjustment that I just tried it on and left.

I dig the sound and the way this neck seems to open up my horn. I also really appreciate the always prompt and helpful service from everyone I have dealt with at Cannonball.

Steve
 

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I'd love to try the fat neck that came with my horn, but it appears to be damaged from before I bought it and Cannonball won't replace it. I guess I'll never know...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I made the adjustment Randal suggested, and I am no longer having this problem at all! Thank you Randal...

Patsequin: That is too bad. You didn't notice the damage when you play tested the sax? I have a, iced black fatneck (Raven) I would sell, PM me if interested...
 

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I'd love to try the fat neck that came with my horn, but it appears to be damaged from before I bought it and Cannonball won't replace it. I guess I'll never know...
Did you buy the Cannonball new from a Cannonball dealer or a used one from someone/somewhere else? If yours was a used sax that wasn't covered under warranty there is the possibility the neck could be repaired. Have you checked into this alternative?
 

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Pat, we’ll be happy to help you out. We have to handle all warranty issues through the local dealer where you bought the horn…so have them check it out and they can contact us for any warranty work that needs to be done, and of course we’ll take care of you.
 

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Pat, we’ll be happy to help you out. We have to handle all warranty issues through the local dealer where you bought the horn…so have them check it out and they can contact us for any warranty work that needs to be done, and of course we’ll take care of you.
This is why I love Cannonball. You guys really will help the customer in any way you can. It's great to know the company backs their products as much as you guys do.
 

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Randal thank you for your kind response. I think your colleague emailed that info to me and I misunderstood. I bought the horn new from an authorized reseller. I never even looked at the fat neck until I got home because I fell in love with the horn and the standard neck. Now that people are talking about how great the fat neck is, I want to try it. Mine has grooves on the tenon like someone tried to engrave it or something. When I tried playing with it, certain notes just weren't coming out right so I am sure it is screwed up. Should I go back to the retailer and ask them to get me a new neck?

Randal, on a side note - is there a fat neck in black nickle finish like my Gerald Albright tenor?
 
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