[KPoudavoff]

I would need to check it in different spots, BUT that is a too big and long concavity for my taste. On my pieces I put concave tables too, but not that deep. When it’s done right, you shouldn’t be seeing any light when looking from the side.

It can leak actually if you put your ligature towards the shank.


AFAIK, JJ Babbitt do that on purpose, though it seem to be killing reeds faster.

Okay-playing may be due to bad curve numbers, that’s another thing.

 

[KPoudavoff]

* EDIT* Removed quote of deleted post.
Tell that to ALL Dukoffs and Links from the 40s lol that had it on purpose.

Enjoy.

And these are exceptionally playing mouthpieces that seal perfectly.
I don’t see anything wrong with concave tables..many pro cats like Sebastian Knox do not too.
Once the reed warps, and it always does, it has room to warp, while on your flat tables, the side parts will lift up and a leak will appear.

If the sh’t’s made right, it works. On OP’s piece it’s made the wrong way as I stated above.

 

[KPoudavoff]

Yes, you’re accepting facts, not my views. These exceptionally playing mouthpieces have concave tables off the factory, and they work.

If you prefer flat tables, that is totally fine with me, and I know a lot of cats who do also, but saying that something is “none sense” just because you think it’s wrong or do not like it, is nonsense.

 

[KPoudavoff]

Lateral concavity (as shown in your images) doesn’t have the adverse effect on reed lay in the same way that longitudinal concavity does (as shown in the image from the OP).

I don‘t think I‘ve ever said that the concavity on OP’s photos was right, have I?

These pieces all have that longitudinal concavity, but only in the middle of the table - by the sides it straightens out. That’s the point, that’s why it works.

 

[KPoudavoff]

So, in short, I think that I am moving to the flat-table bunch... ;-)

Thinking that your performance improved due to a flat table is very illogical.

There are four things that contribute to a well playing mouthpiece (IMO):

• good design
• well cut table
• well cut facing
• well finished baffle, tip and etc.

First of all, you are talking about two completely different mouthpiece designs, right?
Secondly, off the factory, Otto links come with all sorts of issues (crooked facings, horrible finishing work and all sorts of table issues) that can contribute to the performance problems that you mentioned. Off the factory, they will never compete with a refaced or a boutique-made mouthpiece.

So, in my opinion, if a mouthpiece lacks at least one of the four qualities above, it will not play well.

 

[KPoudavoff]

While I highly respect Marin’s craftsmanship and experience, I agree with some of his points but cannot agree with the “doing something for many years means you know and do better” point.

In our local jazz orchestra, there are guys who’ve been playing for 40-50 years now, and back when I was 15, I knew more jazz theory concepts than all of them and would play much more sophisticated and logically connected stuff over the changes, so I could get the job done better, having only 5 years of experience than the guys who were doing it for their whole life. They, of course, knew more stuff about notation and sh*t, but when it was time to blow over the changes, all their 40 years of experience were worthless.
You can find the same analogy in drivers. Some of the Taxi drivers I’ve seen that had over 30 years of driving experience, drove like ****, and some with only 5 years of experience drove efficiently, clean and safe. That’s the reason I prefer not to get into experience measuring years-wise.

Don’t get me wrong, having a big experience is great, but using it as a “being right and know all the sh*t“ point doesn’t fly with me. Still, I would consider the concave and flat table thing just being a personal choice of whoever doing the job. Some like this, some like that - both ways it works, and if it does, I’m happy.

And no, none of my concave-table Hollywoods are pickier with reeds than any of my flat-table Florida Links. If the reed itself Is flat, all works well.

PS. The Hollywood that you set up, Marin, has a huge concavity, and plays great. Though, I wish it had more baffle.

 

[KPoudavoff]

There is a very good reason why folks start lecturing, teaching, and professing

I’ve never said I was an expert or anywhere close to your level of competence, BUT I have enough skills to revive a totally destroyed mouthpiece and make it sing again, so I guess I have some rights to share my thoughts on the subject...No?

Why sharing facts and opinions is considered lecturing and teaching??? You’re seeing things, Marin. The only thing I’ve said and keep saying is that BOTH concave and flat tables WORK if made right, because there were some individuals (who deleted their messages) who affirmed otherwise. And it is a fact, these both ways DO work.

 

[KPoudavoff]

Facts though- one's thoughts on this subject after 1-2 years vs. one's thoughts after 20 years are different in substance, depth, and value.

That’s a stretch.
I recently had an argument with a pro refacer with a lot of experience (17 years or more), who was saying that gold plating on a ligature makes a noticeable difference in sound between a silver-plated ones, so after that, I realized that I cannot trust almost anyone even with “a lot of experience“.

 

[KPoudavoff]

Your logic now is clear to me, cheers for explaining.

There are plenty of really useless 10 and 20 year craftsmen.

That is something I’ve been curious about…some of these “experienced” guys have been cutting for THAT long, and their work still looks like they started a week ago. I wonder how that’s possible.