[mjs10]

Okay, I just bought a soprano from a fellow sotw. He claimed the the horn was serviced last year (didnt ask if it was a repad) and rarely played since then.

I got the horn today (the horn flew from US to Australia), very very happy, packed well, etc.

But...

When i tried out the horn, I cant play the lower register from F-low C (didnt even try the low Bb and B). It sounds ok for example from C1-B-A-G and when I hit F it goes up 1 octave (not pressing octave key at all)same with E but NOT F#, low D is also like that, and I cant even blow low C, it gurgles. I tried to change the embouchure and really concentrate to blow with my throat open, it sounds ok but gurgles 2-3 seconds after.

I can play the 2nd octave good.

So is this a sign of leak? Pads definately look good although I am not an expert to judge. I tried to detect the leak with my little torch in a dark room (its in the evening now so I can easily turn off the light in my room), I dont see any light leaking out if I press it hard enough. But funny thing is this...

When i play C major scale from C1 down slurring (not tounging) i can play F E AND D in their appropriate pitch smoothly BUT i have to press the key very very very gently. But still I cant play low C.

Another question:

I see there are 2 adjustable screws around the F or E key ( not too sure), what re they for? I tried to turn the screw around the left and right but didnt do any good. What are they for, they must be somekind of tuning device because there are something like small corks underneath them going up and down when i turn the screw left or right. What is the right position on the corks? I am sure they must be in the right position to hold the cups.

IS there anyway to adjust the low C?

Thanks and sorry if i am a bit confusing I dont know how to describe them best.

 

[Jolle]

Another question : how long do you play and on what horn? (I guess not that long and alto)

One good advice : if you don't know what you're doing, DON'T touch those screws. They are adjustment screws to finetune the action of your sax, meaning making sure the mechanism that connects the different keys works optimal. The right position is dependent on the regulation of the rest of the mechanism, so you need a tech to figure that out.

 

[Thomas]

I'm assuming from your post that this is your first foray into the wild and wacky world of the soprano....if I'm correct I think the problem may be you.
Posture and horn position are very important especially for an undeveloped soprano embrochure. Hold the horn out away from your body with your elbows winged out from your sides, you're not playing a clarinet. Make sure that when you reach for those lower notes that you aren't slightly opening any of the side keys, palm keys, the G# key, or left hand spatula keys(C#-B-Bb)
Relax-control your airstream and make adjustments to airstream and embrochure as necessary.....you'll get it with a bit of time.

But get the horn checked as well-there could be a mechanical problem too.

 

[Jolle]

given he's been messing with the screws : if there wasn't a problem before, there is one now... It's a sax that travelled a long way, and the shaking can deregulate a sax (had that with my tenor too).

Second Thomas for the rest. And want to add that soprano asks a decent breath support (pressure from the diaphragm) and a relaxed embouchure to get the low notes speak.

 

[shmuelyosef]

I see there are 2 adjustable screws around the F or E key ( not too sure), what re they for?

These are the coarse volume adjustment...turn them either way and the volume goes down.

Seriously, I agree with the others...if you have messed with the screws and don't know what to do, you need a tech, especially for a soprano.

 

[hornimprovement]

if you have messed with the screws and don't know what to do, you need a tech, especially for a soprano.

I concur with the aforementioned. At this point, having played around with the screws, it is time to take it to a tech and have it set up properly.
As for the original problem, you probably didn't have the mouthpiece on far enough. On most sopranos, the mouthpiece has to swallow most of the cork to be in tune with itself and be harmonically correct. The relatively short
wavelengths on sop are more sensitive to being out of sync, causing burbles and other response issues.
It sounds like this basic problem may have been exacerbated by slight regulation problems in the right hand mechanism and a "new to soprano" player.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

1. You have really stuffed up critical adjustments. 1/20th of a turn can really mess up these adjustments, and prevent low notes playing.

2. "When i tried out the horn, I cant play the lower register from F-low C" In my experience, a well adjusted soprano is very easy to play in this range. I suggest that it was full of leaks even before you created more.

Get it to a good technician before you torture yourself and the instrument any more!

 

[CountSpatula]

Definitely get it to a good tech man. My alto was having the same problems after I got it and I let a local tech go to work on it...got it after just a day and works perfectly!

 

[mjs10]

Got it, well I did play with the screws (guilty feeling here...) and it didnt make things better. I went to a tech today and he told me that the horn has lots of leaks. He even told me that the horn was serviced or repaded by someone who doesnt know anything about saxophone. He charged me $450 (US$300 or there about) to fix the problem.

One more thing...my soprano is an S-6, this tech was surprised and asked me why I bought an S-6 because he told me that S-6 is out of tune horn. Is that true?

 

[Jolle]

An S-6 as in Yanagisawa S-6, the so-called copy of the Mark VI ?

That's supposed to be a decent sax with a good intonation. Most elder sopranos have intonation issues, that's part of the instrument. A good tech can get half of that away by a decent regulation

(like mine did, he did wonders with my Dolnet Belair soprano).

Don't worry, you bought a good instrument. A new Yanagisawa soprano will likely be more in tune than the elder ones. But the S-6 is, as far as I've heard, a very decent horn.

 

[Saxmusiclover]

Got it, well I did play with the screws (guilty feeling here...) and it didnt make things better. I went to a tech today and he told me that the horn has lots of leaks. He even told me that the horn was serviced or repaded by someone who doesnt know anything about saxophone. He charged me $450 (US$300 or there about) to fix the problem.

One more thing...my soprano is an S-6, this tech was surprised and asked me why I bought an S-6 because he told me that S-6 is out of tune horn. Is that true?

Don't feel bad you have to spend US$300 to have it fixed. This is a basic risk of buying a horn that has to be shipped from half way around the world. No matter how well it is packed the chances of it being jiggled out of alignment in shipping are very high. Had the same experience with my Yani alto which arrived from Detroit completely out of tune. Cost me US$250 to have it fixed. IMHO you have to set aside a budget for the tech every time you buy from overseas (just in case).

 

[whaler]

Got it, well I did play with the screws (guilty feeling here...) and it didnt make things better. I went to a tech today and he told me that the horn has lots of leaks. He even told me that the horn was serviced or repaded by someone who doesnt know anything about saxophone. He charged me $450 (US$300 or there about) to fix the problem.

One more thing...my soprano is an S-6, this tech was surprised and asked me why I bought an S-6 because he told me that S-6 is out of tune horn. Is that true?

$300 to fix some leaks! I don't know if I would be the one feeling guilty. Don't tell anyone around here that the S-6 is an out-of-tune horn. They are the highly regarded (but seem to change hands a lot) alternative to the people that don't want to shell out the money for a MarkVI.

 

[tictactux]

$300 to fix some leaks!

Seriously, such tasks take time. And the bigger the pads (and the more of them), the more time it takes to fix 'em all. Especially when an unknown number of people (with unknown qualifications) had their fingers in the mechanisms.

 

[ismail]

could be the screw which pushes down the G# key when pushing any note below.

find that screw and check out if it is not too much screwed in so that the right hand F key does not close proplerly!!!

 

[fballatore]

I'm the one that sold the horn to Ivan on behalf of my teacher, who is a professional player.

The horn was in excellent playing condition when it was packed. As I had stated to you, there's always a very good possibility that regulations and adjustments have will have to be made any time a horn is shipped, especially when it goes from the east coast of the US to Australia. Of course, as you've learned here, you didn't make matters any better by trying to make some adjustments yourself.

It's unfortunate that your tech charged you $300US to make these adjustments, and I'd be a little concerned about him, especially about his comments that the "S-6 is out of tune horn" (not true at all; the S-6 is an excellent horn), and that "the horn was serviced or repaded by someone who doesnt know anything about saxophone". The horn was regulated, cleaned, and had pad work done in late 2006 by Paul Maslin in Chicago, one of the most well-regarded sax techs in the US, and was put away after the work was done. I've bought and sold several horns over the past few years, and have typically spent $75-100 to have them regulated and adjusted after receiving shipment.

Frank

 

[Jolle]

that's another story then. I regard Frank as a decent and honest man, so if he says the repad job was fine, I believe that. then it is indeed much you have to pay.

 

[mjs10]

Thanks for your comment frank. I actually dont believe that s-6 is out of tune. I did tell him that s-6 is highly regarded as an alternative to mark 6 in the US and in Australia, soprano is quite rare to talk about. Dont get me wrong Frank, the physical condition of the horn is excellent. No bent rods. Its just the pads he reckoned that wasnt placed properly.

Anyway, all I know this guy has been around for quite some time, I havent dealt with him personally. Is just that my regular guy is very busy and will take more than 3 weeks for him to fix it.

As I said it was packed very well, keys were cork guarded too and I dont see how it would get un-adjusted.

Anyway, I've paid the deposit money, lets see he can really do the job.

 

[mjs10]

An S-6 as in Yanagisawa S-6, the so-called copy of the Mark VI ?

That's supposed to be a decent sax with a good intonation. Most elder sopranos have intonation issues, that's part of the instrument. A good tech can get half of that away by a decent regulation

(like mine did, he did wonders with my Dolnet Belair soprano).

Don't worry, you bought a good instrument. A new Yanagisawa soprano will likely be more in tune than the elder ones. But the S-6 is, as far as I've heard, a very decent horn.

Thanks Jolle, yeah I think he has lack of experience with soprano and older horns. I should ve brought it to my regular tech.

I know s-6 is highly regarded, no dont worry Frank I wont return the horn to you mate, I love it. I can play the higher notes up to low G and I love the sound.

I am thinking maybe it is also human factor as this is my first time playing soprano.

Ok question..this soprano doesnt have a neck so how do I position the mouthpiece? I mean with my tenor I position my mouthpiece according to the neck. (straight angled) with this one, I dont know how to. Do I have to make it allign with the keys?

 

[Jolle]

MjS10, good advice for the future : NEVER take a soprano to a tech you don't trust. They're the most sensitive instruments, and if that guy tells you that sax is out of tune and need a complete repad whereas Frank defenitely disagree, I don't trust him anymore. If possible, get it back and wait until your own tech has time.

Chances are that he's going to do a bad job and then just blame it on the horn. I've had a crook like that before...

Concerning the position of the mouthpiece : I align it with the thumbrest, and then move it a bit until the feel of the horn is perfect. It's a bit trial and error, whatever feels most comfortable

 

[mjs10]

Took the horn back from the first tech, tried to play it with all sort of ways in blowing it to minimize the leaks but I couldnt still blow it properly. Went to a shop, I tried a nice curved yanagisawa sc992 soprano and a straight one with same mouthpiece, i can blow them easily without tilting the horn to the left or right of my mouth. There is a problem with the horn. Definately.

So I went to my usual tech today, conrad (DrSax) in fitzroy (www.drsax.com.au), he is one of the best tech in Australia I guess, should have come to him but he was on holiday till yesterday). After he examined the horn, he told me the pads are leaking all over this is not about regulation and adjustment but the pads were done un professionally. Ok this leaking pads I can take but the next thing he told me was the one that made me almost fainted.

The horn is bent, yes the tube is bent. Not severely but still its bent. Cant really see from outside. But after looking from the cork hole/mp hole I can see the tube is bent slightly to the right. (thumb rest facing down).

By saying this, I dont mean to offend anyone, I respect everyone especially Frank Ballatore in this forum and I dont suspect anything.

I am only telling the truth and nothing but the truth about the condition of the horn. At the moment the horn is in the hand of Conrad exton or DrSax in Fitzroy.

I dont mean to start a debate or accuse anything bad about any persons involved, I just want fairness as buyer and seller.
I tried as much as I could to believe that this is just my lack of experience in blowing soprano but after trying 3 sopranos in which I could blow them much easier than the s-6, I thought I had to get another advise so I went to the 2nd tech (DrSax).