[bluesplayer]

New guy here 1st post. I'm wanting To get back to playing the sax. Played a couple of years in the 80's. Played guitar since I was a kid. Still can't read music. I think I want a C melody this time so I don't have to try and transpose. Is the quality of the new China C melody horns (fleabay) as good as I heard the recent Aquilasax C melody horns are. I tried to find a Aquilasax C melody but none seem available. Or would I be better off getting a old horn in need of being rebuilt? Thanks for having me.

 

[lydian]

I can't answer your question about whether Aquilasax is similar to new Chinese models. Many suspect that Aquila was Chinese made, hence possibly equivalent to certain models. I have no idea which models those are.

But I can tell you that since you don't read music, transposition shouldn't be a problem. When you transpose, you look at a note on the page, and move it up or down to get the right note on your sax. Since the page is meaningless to you, it doesn't matter what the names of the notes are. You'll just play whatever you hear. If you're talking about reading chord symbols, yes you would have to transpose those. But you can get Bb or Eb fake books online for free all day long. And you won't be in any position to use chord symbols for improvisation for a few years anyway.

So get a modern tenor or alto, whichever one you prefer. Buy used if you want to save some money. Your local craigslist probably has several horns in good playing condition suitable for a beginner.

If you still want a C melody, old ones in good playing condition can still be found cheap, so you don't necessarily have to buy a junker. I have a 1925 vintage Conn C melody I got for $250 that looks like it just came out of the factory. Somebody put a lot of money into in the past only to find there was no market for it. This happens a lot.

Since you're a beginner, you don't necessarily have to get the best horn right off the bat. A Chinese horn will serve you well the next few years as you learn how to play. Then when you become fantastic, you can upgrade and will be able to get exactly what you want.

I do highly recommend you learn to read as you learn the sax. It works great with children and worked great with me. In a few months, you'll learn most of the notes and where they are on the page. Learning reading at the same time is almost effortless. I personally use beginner band books for children when I learn a new instrument from scratch. They're well paced, simple and fun. Once you have the basics down, you can go nuts on whatever advanced books strike your fancy.

 

[Hassles]

The Aqiliasax offerings were made in China (discussed here recently). https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?370408-Was-the-C-and-F-sax-family-an-afterthought

these C saxes from the UK (see URL below) are deemed to be pretty much the same as judges by others here. Where the Aquilasax horns came with a mouthpiece these new horns do not and that will be your challenge - to find a mouthpiece.

https://www.sax.co.uk/saxophones-shop-by-size-c-melody-saxophones.irc

demo:

 

[musekatcher]

Couple things. Having a C instrument is an advantage for music based on sharp keys, like guitar music. However, its not the short cut you might think. Learning a Bb or even an Eb instrument isn't any more difficult. You need to build proficiency with all keys, regardless of the "key". And transposing can be done several ways, not the huge complicated task that it seems. Second, Aquilasax was pretty successful, the owners were pretty happy. I highly suspect these current production saxes are either made by the same factory, or borrowed the tooling and design that was used for the Aquilasax models. An original C melody from the major makers is a good horn, as they were considered professional models such as the Conns and 8Ms. I'd be more interested in one of those, just for interest and collectability. And lastly, the value of C melodies have gone up a good bit in the past years, if you've looked. Some folks really dislike their existence, but there is a healthy market for them. I'd still recommend picking up a Bb tenor as a first horn though, its more universal, easier to find a good one in good repair and less of an oddity and distraction while you re-learn.

 

[Taragot]

Thomann is selling one with alto-style neck and finetuner, too (laquer and silver).
https://www.thomann.de/de/thomann_cms600_l_c_melody_sax.htm
I thought that the chinese maker of the aquilasax sold these saxes on his own and that meant the end of aquilasax. If this is true, these saxes should be more ore less the same as the aquilasax. Too bad, I always wanted a c-soprano, but waited too long...

 

[Taragot]

https://www.cmelody.ch/fernost-heute/

Sorry to chime in again. On this swiss cmelody-site it's written, that c-melodies directly from china are equal to the former aquilasax and that the thomann is different from them, but the same as sakkusu and tuyama. I'm not shure, but I think I remember two different aquilasax types back in the days (straight and curved neck).

 

[milandro]

As a common practice, in China, there are always small variations made to differentiate one horn from another , even when made by the same maker. I am sure that all C melodies on the market are all still made by the same original source but at one point that was certainly the case.


Investing in competing with other brands , from any other company, in such a minority market ( I think that it has been proven IT being a minority market from the fact that it was no longer viable to sustain such a venture based mostly, even if not only, on such a niche) with all the starting costs would be at least, e thinks, extravagant.

If anything the Chinese industry has been proven to hardly ever venture into market segment which haven’t proven their size.


The first C melodies tenors (despite what people call them these are tenors and not altos) which found their way to the market from the makers in China ( I think that it was no secret to anyone that these saxophone were made in China on a commission base from Aquilasax) were even branded Aquila ( which by the way it is Italian for Eagle) .

Later one they were sold under different names.

Also aquilasax offered in the beginning one neck only and then there was the choice of straight and curved and if I remember well the curved came also in under and over slung.

Bu the way, there was even a C soprano made in China based on a Eppelsheim design which was supposed to be sold by IW ( International Woodwind).

Very few were made, Aquilasax was also thinking of having one made. In the end this other C saxophone hasn’t been produced ( The IW was brought to the market at a whopping $3000 which to me was its death sentence )

 

[cvsimson]

Great information already in the posts above.
I just want to ad that if you are looking for a more modern and lighter fingering, the Chinese option might be better. If you are looking for the best sound, the vintage C-Melodies are better.
Buying online is a risk for both cases, and either option might need some work from a technician before it is fully usable.
Finding the right mouthpiece will be a journey. It can be fun, as you explore different sound concepts.
To start you should be OK with one of the modern C melody mouthpieces: Caravan or Morgan.
If you need a lower budget option for mouthpieces, alto mouthpieces (larger chambers) will work on Conns and probably on the Chinese horns, since they were Conn-based. Other vintage C melodies, like Bueschers, do better with Tenor pieces, in my opinion.

 

[musekatcher]

Great information already in the posts above.
I just want to ad that if you are looking for a more modern and lighter fingering, the Chinese option might be better. If you are looking for the best sound, the vintage C-Melodies are better.
Buying online is a risk for both cases, and either option might need some work from a technician before it is fully usable.
Finding the right mouthpiece will be a journey. It can be fun, as you explore different sound concepts.
To start you should be OK with one of the modern C melody mouthpieces: Caravan or Morgan.
If you need a lower budget option for mouthpieces, alto mouthpieces (larger chambers) will work on Conns and probably on the Chinese horns, since they were Conn-based. Other vintage C melodies, like Bueschers, do better with Tenor pieces, in my opinion.

Yes good put on the mouthpiece matching, very important for C melodies. I almost bought an Aquilasax C tenor, and a C melody several times, because I thought the 1920's horns were obsolete, bad ergonomics, bad intonation, etc. Thankfully, I did enough research to hear excellent music recorded in the 1920's, and was more fortunate to borrow a 1920's New Wonder C melody, that was playable, proving to myself what I needed to know. Just be prepared to experiment with mouthpieces to find a good match - heck, this is true for any horn, not just C melodies.

 

[adamk]

I bought a Aquilisax metal mpc for my Buescher C years ago.
Kept it awhile and sold it for cheao.
Bought a Morgan C mpc.
Still have the case I bought from them.
Tried some reeds, they sucked.

 

[lydian]

Yes good put on the mouthpiece matching, very important for C melodies. I almost bought an Aquilasax C tenor, and a C melody several times, because I thought the 1920's horns were obsolete, bad ergonomics, bad intonation, etc. Thankfully, I did enough research to hear excellent music recorded in the 1920's, and was more fortunate to borrow a 1920's New Wonder C melody, that was playable, proving to myself what I needed to know. Just be prepared to experiment with mouthpieces to find a good match - heck, this is true for any horn, not just C melodies.

How is an absolute beginner who can't even blow a note going to be able to judge mouthpieces? And the one known good C mel mouthpiece is a Morgan which will cost more than the horn itself. A C melody for an absolute beginner a century after they became obsolete is a terrible idea for many reasons.

 

[adamk]

How is an absolute beginner who can't even blow a note going to be able to judge mouthpieces? And the one known good C mel mouthpiece is a Morgan which will cost more than the horn itself. A C melody for an absolute beginner a century after they became obsolete is a terrible idea for many reasons.

+1

 

[lesacks]

... A C melody for an absolute beginner a century after they became obsolete is a terrible idea for many reasons.

On that point. It's worth noting that if you need learning material, maybe some of the excellent online tutorials, etudes, even fingering (core, altisimo) charts etc. They'll 99.9% be available in Eb or Bb with compatible backing tracks etc. - I've seen nothing in C for sax other than "keyless" exercises (for learning all keys).

 

[bluesplayer]

Thanks for all the information, comments and links. I ran into the sakkusu today. It and the Thomann Look like a nice horns but the cost is more than I'm willing to spend on a china horn. After listening to a bunch of youtube videos. The c melody doesn't sound as deep as the tenor or as rich as a alto. Some videos seem better than others so it's the player or the MP. I realize you all are correct I'd be better off with a Eb or Bb horn. I really glad I asked. I like the sound of a tenor. It should be easier this time with the internet to learn to play it.
I like the looks of this Tempest tenor with a 5 year warranty. I'm trying to find out where its made. Sent them a email so I'll see if they contact me back. Thanks again.

 

[Hassles]

On that point. It's worth noting that if you need learning material, maybe some of the excellent online tutorials, etudes, even fingering (core, altisimo) charts etc. They'll 99.9% be available in Eb or Bb with compatible backing tracks etc. - I've seen nothing in C for sax other than "keyless" exercises (for learning all keys).

95.% of music available is written for piano - in C - and most of that is fabulous, if you have an appreciation for classical music. This is where a majority of the C saxes appeal is. To play this music, any of it, without constant transposition.

 

[motteatoj]

Thanks for all the information, comments and links. I ran into the sakkusu today. It and the Thomann Look like a nice horns but the cost is more than I'm willing to spend on a china horn. After listening to a bunch of youtube videos. The c melody doesn't sound as deep as the tenor or as rich as a alto. Some videos seem better than others so it's the player or the MP. I realize you all are correct I'd be better off with a Eb or Bb horn. I really glad I asked. I like the sound of a tenor. It should be easier this time with the internet to learn to play it.
I like the looks of this Tempest tenor with a 5 year warranty. I'm trying to find out where its made. Sent them a email so I'll see if they contact me back. Thanks again.

If your approach to starting sax is a Chinese c Mel you like the look of and want a c Mel so its easier, and have that low of a budget, I'd suggest picking a different instrument.
Your approach on all fronts is counter to everything about the world of sax playing.

 

[lesacks]

95.% of music available is written for piano - in C - and most of that is fabulous, if you have an appreciation for classical music. This is where a majority of the C saxes appeal is. To play this music, any of it, without constant transposition.

Obviously. But we're talking to someone, apparently, getting back on the learning curve.

Again, my point is that teaching material for sax, in C, is thin on the ground.

 

[cvsimson]

How is an absolute beginner who can't even blow a note going to be able to judge mouthpieces? And the one known good C mel mouthpiece is a Morgan which will cost more than the horn itself. A C melody for an absolute beginner a century after they became obsolete is a terrible idea for many reasons.

I don't disagree.
To start learning the saxophone, a used Yamaha Alto or Tenor would be my advice.
That being said, it was a good discussion on the additional challenges of buying any Chinese or Vintage horn online.
I started learning on a C melody because I already played other instruments in C, and wanted to try the saxophone without investing much, while being able to read all music sheets that I already had.
It is still my favorite sax for Brazilian choro, Bossa Nova, and some other pieces, but I also enjoy playing the other vintage saxes I got since.
Horses for Courses, as a better saxophone player said recently in another discussion.