[mjs10]

Okay, I am in the market of a near perfect conn 10M (early model), I emailed saxpics and asked him about conn and he recommended me to try sx90r if i like the sound of conn 10m. Then I made a little research and I actually havent tried these horns yet because theres none available at the moment in my local area.

I have read some good words and endorsments and some review from Jason Dumars about keilwerth and their review makes me think to try this horn.

I live in Australia,and I emailed the guy who imported keilwerth sax and told me the shadow's RRP is AU$11700, thats unbelievably pricey compared to reference 54 $7100 Thats in AUssie dollar mind you (1AU=0.86USD)

And i found a guy in ebay whos selling sx90r tenor for merely $5000 USD and I was thinking of making an offer. I thought ok I buy it and if I dont like the horn I can always sell it maybe I can get profit out of it =)

The sx90 and keilwerth in general is higly regarded here, theres an online shop who sold 2 of sx90r for 5grand Aussie second hand.

So is it really worth the money as I can get a good conn 30M for that kind of price or even an early near perfect 10M.

I have around 5 grand US budget (sold 2 of my horns, 875 yamaha and a late 10M 329xxx)and I dont want a mark 6.

Thanks in advance.

 

[playitfunky]

I don't like Keilworth. IMO the are clunky and the keywork feels wrong. I've played a couple and I thought that they don't match Yamaha, Selmer, or Yani as far as tuning goes. Having said that of course there are some really good players sounding great on them. I certainly wouldn't pay 5000 grand usa though. I'd go buy a Yamaha 82z and save about 2 grand to visit somewhere really cool, say like Australia or something like that.

 

[Joe Jazz]

You can always save a bunch of money and get one of the remaining SX90's.
Kesslers has some.

 

[gary]

mjs, those prices are crazy. I'm glad you posted first.

I have a JK SX90R and paid $2,700.00 for it. It was an "A" or "B" category sax from WW&BW. Actually, it wasn't even used. It was several years old but I was the first owner. It's a great horn and has absolutely no flaws (save some discolouration around the solder points). And that was for $2,700.00. $5000.00 for a normal JK is insane.

Regarding your comment about buying off of eBay, "I thought ok I buy it and if I dont like the horn I can always sell it maybe I can get profit out of it," you had better read the thread heath posted about JK resale values before you put that theory into practice.

About the saxes themselves, there was an informative thread about the differences between the Shadow and the usual JKs. Just search the "shadow" threads and you should find it. No need to be redundant here.

Regarding the advice you were given, the SX90R probably is the closest in concept of a modern sax to the Conn 10Ms - I've got a JK and I've had two 10Ms in the past. It's possible that a Mauriat might be in the neighborhood as well as a Cannonball, but I am only bringing that up based on what I've read, not experienced, but it's something you might want to look into.

The JK ergos take a little getting used to, but if you are coming from a 10M you might find some of the JK hand positions a little wide but you'll likely also find the LH pinky keys easier to play. I've got a Yamaha and a JK and I've always thought the Yamaha had great ergos, but going back th the JK, since I'm so familiar with it, I would say more that it's different than unwieldy. You'll adjust to the ergos.

Anyway, some thoughts. I'll leave room for some others to chime in. Good luck in your quest.

 

[Morry]

I've played a couple and I thought that they don't match Yamaha, Selmer, or Yani as far as tuning goes.

Just goes to show how different folks are. I came from half a lifetime of playing Yamahas, and I find the Keilwerth to the have the best intonation of any horn I've ever played.

 

[Joe Jazz]

Just goes to show how different folks are. I came from half a lifetime of playing Yamahas, and I find the Keilwerth to the have the best intonation of any horn I've ever played.

I've played several of both and agree with you Morry......they are just as good....

 

[CONN-hunter]

JK´s are very good. I own a alto sx90R and it is a great sax, I chosed it against a Yanagisawa A901.
JK´s are big band, Jazz horns made after CONN`S , the body measure and design remember the CONN´s for me.
I owned several 10M´s and at this moment a NW I.
A friend from me was here and he plays a JK EX90III and it sounds very close to the 10M. I still prefering the core from the CHU berry.
However a modern SX90R hs many advantages from ergonomie and playability but don´t expect to get the Vintage CORE out a modern JK.

what the ergonomie concerns the first SX90rs were really not the best. Yamahas and yanagiswa were allways better than JK in this categorie.
Now, JK has new keywork design!!! the vintage Modells have better ergonomics more like selmer! really great.
get sure to get a recently build JK but I think that the Shadows all have the upgraded ergonomics.,
Shadows are New Silver with coating.
Try before you buy

 

[Joe Jazz]

Well, Mr. Hyde ordered a Shadow tenor last night, but after sleeping on it(tossing & turnng)Dr. Jekyl decided he couldn't bear to sell both my soprano and tenor to pay for the darn thing. Cancelled it. Dr. Jekyl also really gave some thought to the fact that the Shadow is about the same price as a Selmer Reference 54 or 36. I've always said I thought Selmers were overpriced and here I go ordering a Shadow for almost 5 grand! Craziness! I may have to strap myself in a chair at some point to stop Mr. Hyde from ordering one again! :twisted: /:angel4:

 

[Jolle]

take into consideration that a shadow is nickelsilver, not copper. That does something with the price, and as far as the word goes out, also on the sound.

This said, I played a JK SX90 today in the sax shop, and was actually a bit dissappointed. I have a Selmer signet (the buescher copy) and get a bigger sound on that one (not kiddin'). I guess my teacher was right : they ain't making horns like the old ones any more.

But as far as intonation and ergo goes, I love them.

Should mention though that "classic playing" and even "jazz playing" is not the best way to describe my playing

 

[gary]

Craziness! I may have to strap myself in a chair at some point...

No. You need someone who will come over regularly and beat you with a strap!! :twisted:

 

[Joe Jazz]

No. You need someone who will come over regularly and beat you with a strap!! :twisted:

Ahhh, if only you lived closer Gary!

 

[gary]

Ahhh, if only you lived closer Gary!

Oh no. Here we go again. The Spanking. The Spanking.

I could send bad, wicked naughty Zoot over. I understand she just moved to your neck of the woods. :shock:

 

[Joe Jazz]

Oh no. Here we go again. The Spanking. The Spanking.

I could send bad, wicked naughty Zoot over. I understand she just moved to your neck of the woods. :shock:

Does this mean I have to wear my Zoot Suit for my strap beating?ccasion:

 

[kickserver3]

i just got myself a brand spankin' new keilwerth from wwbw's newest distributor. i pulled my horn out and saw saw that the engraving has been updated....this one has engraving on the bell lip as well. i have nothing bad to say about my keilwerth. i had a selmer serie III and i personally have to say that i hated it...it was a complete waste of money. i got this keilwerth and its great...factory fresh...ahhhhh!!!!

 

[Joe Jazz]

Huh? Since when does WWBW have "a distributor", and what model JK comes with bell lip engraving? Gotta be one of the Taiwanese models...

 

[ChuBerry47]

I dare you to find a more quality saxophone than a Keilwerth, (or Epellsheim), but they are great!

 

[LampLight]

The MAPS of the Shadow and Ref 54 are closer than their list prices. I just checked the MAP Saxforte and Kessler's. The MAPs were almost identical on Saxforte, which claimed to have both in stock. On Kessler's, the MAPs are within 10 per cent. Note: I'm excluding the Limited edition Refs in this comparison.

FWIW, I own a Shadow, and I'm very pleased with it.

EDIT: Apparently, the Selmer prices are not MAPS (see Saxforte's post later in this thread). However, the prices I checked were the online advertised prices for these vendors.

 

[heath]

Yes I'm famous on this section of the forum for blasting the SX90's.

You can read about that in another thread that has lots of hits. Anyway about flipping an SX90, well they don't flip so well. Basically I lost just about a grand on a very mint horn that had been setup perfectly and tweaked by me. People aren't willing to pay top dollar for these horns when it comes to resale.

One thing you'll note though is that you should never buy a new horn from a retailer. The current market prices for Selmer and Keilwerth is insane. I made the mistake of buying the JK brand new and in the end I lost a chunk of cash on a three month old horn. The same is true if you're dumb enough to pay new prices for a Selmer.

My big beef with the Keilwerth was the ergonomics on the lower stack. Sound wise it was fine, but the way a horn feels in my hands is import to me. For me my Ref horns have what I consider the most comfy ergonomics. Yamaha and Yani's also have great ergonomics and as such you see Selmer, Yamaha, Yani out pace JK when it comes to attracting buyers.

Keep your eyes open if you want a JK as the sellers get desperate like I did and eventually you can take them to the cleaners. I've seen guys come on this forum and try to sell their JK's for what they thought they were worth only to watch in horror that they won't get half of what they thought it was worth...if even that. I know I practically gave mine away.

When it comes to my selmers I've kept my eyes open and gotten them for very good deals.

Ref 36 tenor $3080 brand new
Ref 54 tenor $3200 used mint
Mk VI $2200 needed about $500 worth of work
Mk VII $2200 came with fresh overhaul
all tenors.

My selmer alto and soprano were also purchased used in mint condition.
I won't be selling any of these horns, even though I wouldn't loose a dime with these.

 

[DJ TJ]

Hi mjs10,

I'm very happy with my J.K. Shadow tenor, it ended my search for a tenor back in April 2006. Prior to the purchase, I did plenty of research and play tested a variety of different models from various manufacturers.

I ended up taking a trip to a shop that had a Shadow tenor in stock. After play testing a few horns that day, it was an easy decision, I wasn't leaving the store without the Shadow.

Perhaps you should consider taking a trip to a shop that has a large stock of horns that you are interested in so you can try them out and find out what you like best. A trip may be less costly than buying and selling horns to find what you like.

 

[Joe Jazz]

Price just went up again at Saxforte/ebay! I don't know how they expect people to afford them! Must be the Euro...