[Panse]

Hi there!

I'm a newbie who could really use some help. I have been playing for 16 years and teaching for 9 years. I have a pupil who says that playing the tenor is far too much effort and she's at breaking point and feels she should give up even though she adores the instrument.

Her complaint is that she battles to get sound out efficiently (she is a singer who has achieved her grade 8, so I don't think breathing is the problem) and gets tired easily and says her mouth muscles hurt excessively. We've tried changing the reed strength and make, as well as the mouthpiece.

Any ideas?

 

[Cannonball & CmelGuy]

Welcome to SOTW! I myself had trouble with the tenor at first but I learned not to play it like an alto, which is what I did. All she may have to do is loosen her embouchure, and go from there. As I'm only in High School, that's the best advice that I can give.

 

[heath]

How big is she, height wise. Could she benefit from a mouthpiece with a smaller profile such as a metal mouthpiece. Some rubber mouthpiece are pretty big and it can cause fatigue having to clamp your embrochure around it.

Also her mouthpiece may be of poor quality, unresponsive, stuffy, even the top brands are made pretty crappy these days. Maybe a mouthpiece with a really good facing would help. Checking the horn for leaks might be another option. What model mouthpiece and horn is she using?

 

[fballatore]

Is having her try an alto an option, even in the short term? I started on alto and made great progress with it, and when I added a tenor to my arsenal, it took more effort to play (and still does). If I had started on tenor, I'm not sure I would have made the progress I have. Having your student will give her confidence and will help her build her stamina and embouchure to the point where tenor is not as much of an effort.

Just out of curiosity (and this could be helpful in answering you further), how old is your student, how long has she been playing, and what reed and mouthpiece combinations have you used?

Frank

 

[heath]

Yeah but there are lots of women that play altos and very few that play tenor. The tenor does take more air to fill, but the embrochure is actually looser than the alto.

Comfort for this young lady might include finding the right mouthpiece, getting the horn set up and checked out, switching to a harness to take the weight off her neck. Lots of little things to make it more enjoyable for her.

 

[fballatore]

Good point heath. I wasn't suggesting she move to alto permanently, just as a short term thing to work up to the tenor. You make some very good points. I think we both agree that although the embouchure is looser with a tenor, overall it takes more effort to play. Maybe she's clamping down on the mouthpiece to compensate, and that's what's making her mouth ache?

 

[CountSpatula]

Is it ironic that in jazz band, the two altos and bari are guys and we have three tenors all girls? :/

I never thought tenor takes more effort, you just gotta open up and relax (I'm mainly an alto player).

 

[JL]

For me, the alto takes more effort. It's more resistant and takes a tighter embouchure. So I don't think it's an alto vs tenor thing. More likely, as Cannonball says, she needs to relax and loosen her embouchure. Also, like anything else, it takes time to build up some endurance. "Time in the saddle" is what is needed and there are no shortcuts. Encourage her to stick with it.

 

[heath]

Yeah if she really wants to play she wouldn't be complaining about wanting to quit. She'd be asking for tips on how to make this tenor thing work a little better.

This might get into some psycho babble, but is her heart really into the tenor. She might look up to you and doesn't want to let you down, she may very well just want to quit music all together and just spend her days playing on her cell phone. I've seen it a thousand times.

There are some really great soprano and alto female performers, but I've never been kicked between the legs with a female soloing on the tenor. I've always thought you needed some hair on your chest to play the tenor.

 

[Dr G]

Funny coincidence. I was talking to a 12 year-old at a block party over the weekend - she is quitting band next year because her school schedules band during recess and she isn't willing to sacrifice that just yet.

 

[rabbit]

Yeah if she really wants to play she wouldn't be complaining about wanting to quit. She'd be asking for tips on how to make this tenor thing work a little better.

This might get into some psycho babble, but is her heart really into the tenor. She might look up to you and doesn't want to let you down, she may very well just want to quit music all together and just spend her days playing on her cell phone. I've seen it a thousand times.

There are some really great soprano and alto female performers, but I've never been kicked between the legs with a female soloing on the tenor. I've always thought you needed some hair on your chest to play the tenor.

By the way, how's the weather out in Absurdistan, heath?

 

[heath]

By the way, how's the weather out in Absurdistan, heath?

Hey what am I to think when student is complaining and wanting to quit. The first thing out of a students mouth is I'm having a problem can you fix it. You do the best you can to fix the problem, which this teacher probably has and then the rest of it is just sucking it up and moving on.

I went through lots of physical pain from hours and hours of practice everyday when I was younger, bleeding hamburger lips, tendonitis with cortisone injections in my several of my fingers, sweat stinging my eyes from a non-airconditioned practice space in 100 degree heat. Suffering is part of the game if you want to play. You put up with the pain and suffering because you love it, I never went up to anyone and said hey buddy I'm a little uncomfortable and I'd like everything to be perfect or else I'm quiting.

Like I said, some people are better off playing on their cell phones all day.

 

[Panse]

Wow, thanks for all the help!

She is about 5ft3, in her forties, playing a Selmer Prelude tenor (I have the same sax and I love it, it must have been a good day at the factory) with a yamaha 4C mouthpiece. She has a Neotech neckstrap but I will get her to try a harness (thanks Heath)
I will also set up my alto for her (thanks fballatore) in her lesson tomorrow and see how it goes.

I don't think commitment is an issue though, she has a Bachelor of Music, is an accomplished musician and the head of a music dept at a Gr1-gr 12 school(in South Africa), sax is her 4th instrument, and she absolutely loves the sound of tenor, so I don't think I'm going to sway her to change, but it will be good to experiment.

Thanks again!

 

[Carl H.]

I've seen at least one Yamaha 4c with an unplayable facing. You might try a different mouthpiece and reed combination, at least a piece known to be good for starters anyway.

Good luck

 

[rabbit]

Hey what am I to think when student is complaining and wanting to quit. The first thing out of a students mouth is I'm having a problem can you fix it. You do the best you can to fix the problem, which this teacher probably has and then the rest of it is just sucking it up and moving on.

I went through lots of physical pain from hours and hours of practice everyday when I was younger, bleeding hamburger lips, tendonitis with cortisone injections in my several of my fingers, sweat stinging my eyes from a non-airconditioned practice space in 100 degree heat. Suffering is part of the game if you want to play. You put up with the pain and suffering because you love it, I never went up to anyone and said hey buddy I'm a little uncomfortable and I'd like everything to be perfect or else I'm quiting.

Like I said, some people are better off playing on their cell phones all day.

You left out the part about having to walk ten miles
barefoot through the snow to school every day and how it
was uphill both ways.

 

[princeganon]

There are some really great soprano and alto female performers, but I've never been kicked between the legs with a female soloing on the tenor. I've always thought you needed some hair on your chest to play the tenor.

How about Virginia Mayhew? I think she's got a very nice tone, and she can certainly solo.

 

[heath]

You left out the part about having to walk ten miles
barefoot through the snow to school every day and how it
was uphill both ways.

I lived within three blocks of the grade school, high school and the university. And i usually catched a ride with someone to the middle school. Thanks for asking rabbit. I can always feel the love coming from you.

 

[rabbit]

Thank you heath,

I just reflect the compassionate, non-judgmental love you radiate.

rabbit

 

[Carl H.]

Get a room you two.

 

[heath]

How about Virginia Mayhew? I think she's got a very nice tone, and she can certainly solo.

Yeah Virginia can play, but she needs a little something extra. Her tone isn't half bad, but she lacks the angst of some guy drinking, drugging and crawling out from the gutter. Her playing is a little too polite for me.