Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
All my dreams came true some days ago when I found a Meyer New York 5s small chamber in original condition - I was over the moon!

While being everything I've hoped for and more, I find myself pushing quite a bit to keep it from going flat around low G to middle C (w/o octave key). This never happened to me with any other mpc on my Yamaha 82Z.

Could this be remedied by a reface? Any info on New York Meyer short facings? Do they have a tendency to go flat in the middle register?

Besides low G to middle C all other notes are spot on, and I wonder whether to keep the original facing or, if possible, have it fixed.

Thanks for your feedback!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,774 Posts
All my dreams came true some days ago when I found a Meyer New York 5s small chamber in original condition - I was over the moon!

While being everything I've hoped for and more, I find myself pushing quite a bit to keep it from going flat around low G to middle C (w/o octave key). This never happened to me with any other mpc on my Yamaha 82Z.

Could this be remedied by a reface? Any info on New York Meyer short facings? Do they have a tendency to go flat in the middle register?

Besides low G to middle C all other notes are spot on, and I wonder whether to keep the original facing or, if possible, have it fixed.

Thanks for your feedback!
You can fix that with a hammer. That mouthpiece will never bother you again. :mrgreen:
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
Joined
·
7,356 Posts
I'm totally open to being corrected if this is not accurate so take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think you'll be able to change the mouthpiece enough to correct your problem without altering the rest of the notes around it to some degree. It's not like you can zero in on one or two notes a 4th apart. The other notes are going to be affected.

I think most sax players have a few notes in their entire range that are sometimes a little testy. You might just have to work around it if the MP has something special to you. I've got a couple of notes that can stick out a bit when I don't really focus on them. Low Eb and Middle E

As an aside.
I'm always moving my mouthpiece around when I play. And as a result a lot of people have said I always seem to play in tune.
I don't fiddle too much with reeds. But I definitely fiddle with my mouthpiece position and reed/ ligature position a lot. Right on stage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,441 Posts
Middle D sharp and weird, middle C stuffy unless use side key, C# flat.
A-B above them sharp compared to harmonics.
All low notes need extra support or they get flat.
These are my work-arounds on my Buescher 140 alto.
I think it has good intonation.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013
Joined
·
7,356 Posts
Middle D sharp and weird, middle C stuffy unless use side key, C# flat.
A-B above them sharp compared to harmonics.
All low notes need extra support or they get flat.
These are my work-arounds on my Buescher 140 alto.
I think it has good intonation.
Yikes! But you know, that's what I thought also playing a bunch of different horns. Having to make all these concessions and being happy with the intonation.

The Cannonball I played for a few years I thought was amazingly in tune.

Until I got my YTS61. It was almost like magic. You mean to tell me only two notes are a little bit out?? Sign me up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,018 Posts
Interesting situation. What I know is that the short tube notes are affected more when the mouthpiece is pushed in or pulled out. This would include the notes in the upper stack. If the high G, A, B, and C are in tune and the low G, A, B, and C are flat it tells me that the octaves are too wide. Sometimes when players pull the mouthpiece out to get the upper register down to pitch, it makes the low register play flat. What note(s) you tune to can make a difference.

Telling us what pitch you get when you play the mouthpiece alone and what pitch you get when you play the mouthpiece and neck apart from the saxophone might give some clues as to what is happening with those pitches.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2007
Joined
·
1,247 Posts
Hi olli. I believe it is the chamber that is too small for your saxophone, not the facing that is too short. Do you have a Selmer.? Modern Selmers prefer smaller chambers.
Greetings from tropical Denmark, Otto
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,253 Posts
Hi olli. I believe it is the chamber that is too small for your saxophone, not the facing that is too short. Do you have a Selmer.? Modern Selmers prefer smaller chambers.
Greetings from tropical Denmark, Otto
The OP says he has a Yamaha 82Z. Are you telling the OP that if he also has a Selmer, he should try it on the Selmer because Selmers prefer smaller chamber?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for your replies. I also figured chamber size might be the culprit, but besides the left hand w/o octave key all other notes are very well in tune. The octaves of these notes, however, are too far apart. When I tune to low G, A, or B the rest of the horn is too sharp... I'll try it on a Selmer and report back.

Here are some pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157668963066778
 

·
Forum Contributor 2016, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
12,798 Posts
All my dreams came true some days ago when I found a Meyer New York 5s small chamber in original condition - I was over the moon!

While being everything I've hoped for and more, I find myself pushing quite a bit to keep it from going flat around low G to middle C (w/o octave key). This never happened to me with any other mpc on my Yamaha 82Z.

Could this be remedied by a reface? Any info on New York Meyer short facings? Do they have a tendency to go flat in the middle register?

Besides low G to middle C all other notes are spot on, and I wonder whether to keep the original facing or, if possible, have it fixed.

Thanks for your feedback!
A reface does nothing for intonation that I have seen. If they mess with the baffle and chamber size then that could affect it but why do that to a NY Meyer?? You might as well just sell it and play a different mouthpiece. There are only so many of these around I would not mess with it.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
12,711 Posts
Steve is correct. A reface will not change your issues with intonation.

However, if you are doing something odd with cork placement due to stuffiness and tonal issues in certain areas it just might make a difference.

I would tune to the regions of the horn that voice clearly and see what happens.

Bad facings and poor baffle adjustment can impact clarity in a piece by a ton...but again, a facing is not going to change the chromatic behavior of a piece. Changing the chamber would do it but doing so on a vintage Meyer would just be silly. If you wanted to try something like that you would be best to get a modern piece for surgical experiments.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician
Joined
·
25,993 Posts
Sometimes we really, really want a certain piece of equipment to work, that we will go to incredible extremes to make it so. Like totally destroying the value of a vintage mouthpiece in having it altered with only the hope that it will work better for us. Or we keep trying to play on a mouthpiece that just not might be an ideal match for our horns. And why? Because it's supposed to work? Because it has worked for others? Or because we want it to work so bad that we will let the enjoyment of simply playing suffer for it.

It's not a good match. Flip it and move on. Maybe make some money off it and buy something that works better for you right off the bat.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
12,711 Posts
...and we laugh at our wives when they find that one pair of shoes they just have to have but they are one size off...but they gotta try to make them work.

We are probably worse :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Thanks Steve, Phil and Grumps. Truth has been spoken. Really appreciate the heartfelt advice!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member.
Joined
·
1,988 Posts
Different mouthpieces may have different "pitch tendency". And this can be also due to different reeds.

Same for horns.

Yamaha 82Zs are not as sensitive as Selmers in terms of setting up... but they can be sensitive is they are not setted up properly... key height and delay between the keywork of right and left end.
I've tried a tenor 82Z where the key heights were about the standard you can find (or set with no tuning issues) on a Selmer Series II (or even a Serie III) and the instrument was wild to play.
Fun to play... but hard to control (the high register turned sharp too easily).

I never experienced this things on alto... just because I didn't find (luckly) an 82Z alto setted like a Series II/Series III.

It's not uncommon that older pieces are "not so easy to keep in tune"... or they have just a peculiar pitch tendency.

Maybe you didn't find e proper balance (in terms of pitch) with the Meyer Small Chamber and the 82Z.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
32,945 Posts
I'm always moving my mouthpiece around when I play. And as a result a lot of people have said I always seem to play in tune.
I don't fiddle too much with reeds. But I definitely fiddle with my mouthpiece position and reed/ ligature position a lot. Right on stage.
I don’t get how that can work for you. You need to be able to play the full range of the horn at any time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,979 Posts
Hey Keith, I've been on Vandoren S+ chamber pieces with the Yamaha and they work great!
I have a Yamaha 62 Alto. I was having intonation problems with a Meyer Medium chamber on it. I moved to a Vandoren V5 Mouthpiece which had a smaller chamber to help.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top