[Zasterz]

I'd also point out that if you know 1000 tunes but play with a pinched dull tone and bad intonation, no one will want to listen to you; but you can play the simplest stuff with a big rich compelling expressive tone and everyone will want to listen to you.

No doubt that’s true, just questioning the way it’s being presented as an either-or situation. While transcribing, playing along with looped phrases of Paul Desmond, say, trying to match the minutiae of his inflections, vibrato, phrasing, voicing, recording myself, am I not “working on tone”? Is it possible I would accomplish a satisfactory version of the Desmond solo yet because I didn’t specifically trade in some of that time for working on only one note at a time, my tone will surely be pinched? Aren’t I “working on breath stamina” whether holding one note for 12 beats or playing a 12-beat long (mostly) legato phrase on one breath?

I’m a longtime voice teacher and there are certainly many analogous exercises only working on tone or breath-control with voice. But you know who else also typically has great tone and breath-control? Plenty of singers who just sing a lot of repertoire and work to realize its full expression. You can build huge calves doing reps on the machine at the gym but also bike messengers have them without stepping foot in the gym.

To clarify, I have nothing against long tones, I play them sometimes and actually enjoy them. I started sax a year and half ago doing them for like 30 minutes every day and after several months I just couldn’t shake the nagging feeling that I could be better applying that time to something else. It’s just based on my experience coming from other music instruction that anytime you’re doing something that’s “not playing music” and doing it repetitively every day etc, to build muscles, whatever— let’s just say I really question that. “Musical Calisthenics”, “Bootcamp” this kind of attitude. “No Pain No Gain”.

On piano we have the Hanon and Czerny exercises that so many pianists sacrifice untold hours of their time to playing, to gain the skill to move fingers faster with what I’d argue is close to zilch artistic benefit. Like: just play Bach and you’ll get up to speed eventually but with heavenly melody inspiring you every minute along the way.

 

[jazzdesign]

There's nothing WRONG with using ballads for tone practice, but there are two ways in which it's not as good as specific tone practice.

1) Very few ballads cover every single note in the entire key range of the horn from low Bb to as high as you can play altissimo. No ballads involve the complete range of dynamics from pppp to ffff unless of course you specifically do something about this. Every note, and every dynamic level, is a little different in its response.

2) No matter how you play with the time, you'll still be constrained by the song's form to moving from one note to the next to keep the song going. So if you need to go back to that low F#, you probably won't.

My particular tone practice consists of playing each note on the saxophone from low Bb to the highest altissimo I have, starting at pppp, crescending to fffff, then back down to pppp. If the note drops out when very soft, or breaks up when very loud, I go back and try it again. On the lower notes of baritone, I'll need to take each note in a couple of breaths. One of the objectives is to increase dynamic range. If you are regularly practicing going from too soft to too loud and back again, while trying to maintain a constant tone quality and a constant pitch, over time the soft and loud dynamic levels at which you can play with a pleasing tone in tune will get softer and louder. The wider the range of "just barely in control", the wider the range of "in pretty good control" will be, and the wider the range of "command of the instrument with complete control of expressive qualities" will be. (This applies to range as well; someone who's spent several hundred hours concentrating on starting low Bb at pppp level, or playing high F in the palm keys at ffff without having the reed close up, willl have a far better control of these extremes of tessitura.)

And the last point: I recommend that tone exercises be done, whenever possible, outdoors in a location far away from reflective surfaces. This helps build a big husky tone with vibrancy. Avoid practice room tone.

Love that approach Turf3, play the long tones from pppp to FFFF then FFFF to pppp. I especially do that with the low notes of the sax -Bb to C, and the high notes - C to F#. And since lead alto often provides the tuning notes in sax sections and big bands, I practice Concert Bb and C with long tones using that method as well.

I also make sure to practice slurring intervals, also at different volume levels.
I occasionally do the hinge exercises, but my practice time is often limited, so I find going directly to slurring intervals of a 5th for example, starting from low Bb slurring to F then back to Bb, then low B slurring to F# then back to B, etc. all the way to high A slurring to E then back to A, high Bb slurring to F then back to Bb, high B slurring to F# then back to B, concentrating on evenness in tone and embouchure, accomplishes the same things after awhile.

Then it's on to learning tunes and ii V I's. No wonder as an old geezer I still feel there's more to learn and enjoy!

 

[Hassles]

Here's Wallay's take....

 

[Zasterz]

Here's Wallay's take....

Which is interesting because last year when I was using his channel to get started with sax he seemed to advocate using overtone matching instead of long tones.

 

[Hassles]

I consider it very possible to practice too many things simultaneously - I still reckon Wally has the best channel on the planet.

 

[BH9]

If I practice at all, I practice long tones. I’ve used various approaches, but Claire Daley showed what she was taught, and that’s what I’m playing lately.

Metronome no faster than 60bpm, start on G without octave, hold 4 beats, then down to F# for 2 beats, then F for 2. Then, this is important part, inhale for 4 beats. After the inhalation, start the process over a semi tone lower, on F#. 4 beats, then 2, 2 more, and then breathe for 4 beats. Bever take the mouthpiece out of your mouth during the exercise. Continue to the bottom of the horn, then work back up. I do it holding as steady as possible, or usung dynamics, vibrato…wherever i feel weakness. I have done with this the opposite of what we generally do with metronome studies, and that is moving incrementally to slower tempos. I am working at 50bpm now.

 

[Lenny]

I once asked the great Junior Cook who had a phenomenal sound what mouthpiece he used , and he laughed and said "People ask me that all the time - Long Tones!"

 

[gmelhaff]

Seems there's not one size fits all but general consensus is, yes. One of my sax teachers (who's professor at university) still to this day says he practices long tones for an hour every day! He says if you're jazz fest and have to play off and on all day you need the stamina. Everyone of my teachers always emphasized long tones as 101 foundational to practice. That said - I spent lot of years doing long tones that reinforced bad habits I am now unlearning. As my current teacher says, perfect practice makes practice perfect. There's no substitute for focus. If you're doing anything just to get it done it won't give you the benefit you're looking for. I wish it was as easy as checking off your to do list but it's kind of the opposite of that. Whether exercises, licks, improv, long tones, overtones, whatever - the amount of focus you put into it really really matters. Are you relaxed? What's your tongue placement/formation? Are you keeping fingers on keys? What's your tone? Can you alter your tone? What makes it more like what you want and what makes it less like that?

 

[Jehoiada]

I would like to know if renowned musicians such as James Carter, Joshua Redman, Euge Groove, and Kirk Whalum continue to practice techniques such as long tones to maintain the quality of their sound, or if they have reached a level of skill where their sound no longer requires such practices. In essence, do these musicians still work on their technique consistently to maintain their sound, or have they reached a level where their sound is constant without additional practice?"

James Carter (the penultimate multi-instrumentalist today - in my opinion) has a quote that he states often publicly - "Peace, Love and Long Tones." I believe he is a huge proponent of Long Tones and likely practices regularly what he preaches.

 

[GeorgeR]

I have only been working on the sax for five years (although I'm 63). My first teacher didn't have me work on long tones. My current teacher does. As a result, I now play more notes in tune, and I have less vibration when I need to hold long notes (it's a problem I didn't know I had until I started practicing them). I don't just run through scales with long tones, but play various exercises with long tones and apply various dynamics while doing so. I am still a beginner, so I know the question wasn't about beginners, but I know it helps me. I also went about three or four months without working on long tones a year or so ago, and it was obvious that I hadn't been doing so. I also listen to Donna Schwartz's Everything Saxophone podcast, and quite a number of well-known, accomplished players have said that they work on long tones as part of their regular practice routine.

 

[Jehoiada]

I would like to know if renowned musicians such as James Carter, Joshua Redman, Euge Groove, and Kirk Whalum continue to practice techniques such as long tones to maintain the quality of their sound, or if they have reached a level of skill where their sound no longer requires such practices. In essence, do these musicians still work on their technique consistently to maintain their sound, or have they reached a level where their sound is constant without additional practice?"

The inimitable James Carter, whom I believe is the penultimate multi-instrumentalist in Jazz today, has a great quote that he often states publicly - "Peace, Love and Long Tones." I believe he's a believer in the vital importance of practicing Long Tones and practices what he preaches.

 

[WernerLohe]

There’s worms on the floor, where’s the lid? 🤣

Nothing is necessary. Most people who “don’t practice long tones” just do it in other ways while working on other things. It is important to learn to hear, hit, and hold pitches at all volumes and traditional long tone work is a great way to build the stamina and work on your ears.

Yeah, this guy's got it right. The whole point is to just play, play, play. Play a couple of hours a day--which I don't do--and it won't matter at all what you play. Ya know what Miles said to Herbie Hancock when he saw him practicing.... "Hey man, what the F ya doin'?" HH:"Just practicing." MD: "Practicing? What the F do ya think the gig's for, man?"

 

[profjazzsax]

I play my alto and tenor almost everyday for more than an hour. I only do long tones as needed. I'll do them if I'm not happy with my sound or messing with new reeds/mouthpiece etc. If I get called to play bari or soprano, I'll do long tones for a bit to help get the center of my sound dialed in. My routine starts with low "F" playing at a full resonant volume. I slur down chromatically from F, one note at a time to the bell notes, playing F in between each time as a sort of "reference tone". Then I go up the notes of the F major scale to middle F using the same method of returning to low F in between each. Then continue to high C using middle F as the reference. Then from high C to the palm keys. The end goal is being able to play the F major scale with a consitant, big, resonant sound all the way up.

 

[Samdini]

I swear by long tones and overtones for tone and breath control. For longtones, I sometimes play a slow ballad to switch things up. Also, longtones aren't boring when you use them to create kind of a meditative state (like becoming one with the tone.

 

[10mfan]

I was texting a super heavyweight, whom you all know, and I asked him how he felt about long tones, and this is what he wrote:

“I never played them when I was younger. I have a very sketchy history of practicing- I don’t have any practice routines. I always practiced songs when I was young. Now I only practice when I come across something I can’t hear.”

There it is and I’m not going to name names, but he is a LEGEND in our world. A sound to die for.
No long tones.

Not everyone finds long tones to be necessary.
If they work for you, do them.
If they don’t, don’t do them.

 

[paradise]

Good luck digesting the answers, but, we should practise everything orthodox and traditional in advice, while instinctively doing more or less to suit time, energy, aims. Low note improvisations to backing, (I think of old players) especially on ballads, is a sweet way to warm up you and the horn, once you feel comfortable, do the necessary tasks to freely enjoy some variety, playfulness. I've seen a little bit of old film of Ben Webster, in those days, doodling along to records, no doubt well worn. It was a delight. And, imagine hearing many a fine player getting the warming up moving and singing...

 

[xcal1]

I like the comparisons between Sax Practice and other walks of life. The super-athlete may have spent time on basics while building up their super-profile, then they possibly revisit the basics (or not). I'm no super-athlete, so I focus on basics whenever I find time/energy. Using long tones and overtones to **** off the neighbours are staple diet for me.

I relate to the one post where Miles said "practice? that's what gigs are for". For me, the regulare 10or21km road race is just another practice session with more people

 

[Nigrut]

Hi everyone I have a question about practicing long tones on saxophone. Some musicians say that after a certain point, it's not necessary to practice long tones anymore since they're only for beginners, while others believe the opposite. I really admire the great sound of musicians like Euge Groove, and I was wondering what your opinion is on this. Do you still practice long tones in your current practice routine, or do you feel like it's something you don't need anymore? I would really appreciate your input and any additional information you can provide on this matter.🙏

Practicing long tones is meaningless for me as my ambition with the sax is to learn how to play it. My tone is excellent, always has been and my desire is to technically master musical ideas.

 

[turf3]

Since I'm the one who wrote the most lengthy post on the pro-long-tones side, I'd like to clarify:

I did NOT say you can't build tone through other means than long tones. I would like to suggest, though, that other things mentioned here do not provide the CONCENTRATION on tone quality that practicing JUST that will do. You do all realize that professional athletes almost uniformly spend time in the gym working on strength, flexibility, and aerobic capacity? Even though the game of American football does NOT involve lifting weights, nor the striking of yoga poses, nor the running of long distances rather than sprints, I can guarantee you that all successful NFL players stretch, they all spend time in the weight room, and they all run laps.

We practice to get better at things. Practice that's concentrated on a specific item is generally more effective for that item than diffuse practice. You need multiple things to be covered in practice, of course. That's why we practice scales; that's why we have etudes; that's why we (many of us) practice overtones; and if you choose to use long tones (there are several different ways to do this), you'll be spending that time concentrating purely on airstream, voicing, embouchure, and the resulting pitch and timbre. You won't be spending any of your attention on fingering, on changing notes cleanly, on expression, on vibrato, on improvisation, on remembering the melody, on reading the notes. You'll need to practice those things elsewhere. And of course you'll need to practice putting it all together, by performing repertoire.

There are as many practice regimens as there are musicians, but I always come back to the proposition that the standard pedagogical methods are generally the fastest most efficient way for most people to get up to speed and/or maintain themselves at a high pitch of performance.

 

[Keith Ridenhour]

This seems like such a silly question. We are playing a wind instrument. I took trpt lessons for years. Long tones. I took clarinet lessons long tones. Same for voice for sax for flute. All good teachers said the same thing. It’s boring but the 16 count 8 soft to loud 8 loud to soft exercise covers a lot of ground. Recently I was wondering why my flute playing tone sounds great and getting better and my alto tone has taken a step back. Hmmmmm. Wonder what my answer will be and I easy gig on sax three times as much as flute. You are playing a wind. Wind. Wind. Instrument.