[saxmusicguy]

Does anyone have personal experience with Hetman Medium Key Oil? Does it have about the same viscosity as Alisyn Heavy Duty Key Oil? Is the quality as good?

 

[saxmusicguy]

I've heard that Ultimax Medium Viscosity Key Oil is similar to Alisyn Heavy Duty Key Oil. I would like to know where Hetman Medium Key Oil stands among these. Does anyone use Hetman? It comes in a handy needle oiler.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

I use 2 Alisyn oils, and a higher viscosity one from Kraus. I know that technicians respect Hetman oils. I know nothing of their viscosity

 

[shmuelyosef]

I haven't used the Hetman oil in years...ever since discovering the Alisyn oils. Mostly, because I didn't like the needle oiler particularly. I just haven't found the dripping oil on the outside of a hinge has much effect. It works a little for pivot screws, but it's completely useless (IMHO) for hinge tubes. Mostly I use Magnalube-G for hinge tubes and the Alisyn Heavy Duty Key oil for pivot screws. The Magnalube product is complete overkill but I find that it seriously quiets action and provides a 'silky' feel that nothing else compares with. I have used it on my small machine tools for years and just tried it on a saxophone overhaul a few years ago when my bottle of Alisyn Medium ran out. Never went back.

 

[saxmusicguy]

The following statement indicates that the Hetman Heavy Key Oil (not the Medium) is similar to Alisyn Heavy Duty Key Oil.

Another good option in high viscosity synthetic key oils is Hetman Heavy key oil available from WW&BW.com. This is similar to Alysin heavy key oil.

Has anyone else had this experience? I'd like something that can wick into hinge tubes for lubrication without disassembly, and I wonder if the viscosity of Hetman Heavy Key Oil is too high for this purpose.

 

[clarnibass]

Has anyone else had this experience? I'd like something that can wick into hinge tubes for lubrication without disassembly, and I wonder if the viscosity of Hetman Heavy Key Oil is too high for this purpose.

I don't know about the Hetman oils, but maybe worth mentioning that if you try oiling like this and the oil doesn't wick into the hinge then it's also very likely that it's just full of whatever is in it and no oil would wick in. It doesn't necessarily mean the oil is too thick. FWIW.

Mostly I use Magnalube-G for hinge tubes and the Alisyn Heavy Duty Key oil for pivot screws.

Is this correct or do you have it reversed? It's a bit strange you use a thicker grease for hinge tubes but a thinner oil for pivot screws. Generally I consider Alisyn Heavy Duty thinner than I want for pivot screw, I would use thicker oil or grease. I have tried several greases for hinge tubes, including a grease that seems very similar to the Magnalube (also PTFE grease). For me, grease and even a very thick oil (e.g. the type I use for pivot screws) is often too thick for hinge tubes. Just IME/O, not arguing if this works for you.

 

[Stephen Howard]

If you use a heavy oil for a maintenance lube ( i.e. without dismantling the action ) you can't expect to see the oil disappearing before your very eyes in any kind of a hurry. It'll take time - but it does get there.

If you want/need to speed the process up you can mix the oil with a little cigarette lighter fluid. This will thin the oil temporarily and then evaporate. You can also try popping a drop of the fluid on the key just prior to oiling it.
I've never found it necessary to do this myself - I've observed and tested how key oils work their way in and am satisfied that they get where they need to go.

Regards,

 

[saxmusicguy]

For me, grease and even a very thick oil (e.g. the type I use for pivot screws) is often too thick for hinge tubes.

Which type of oil do you use for pivot screws? Do you recommend Alisyn Heavy Duty Key Oil for hinge tubes?

If you want/need to speed the process up you can mix the oil with a little cigarette lighter fluid. This will thin the oil temporarily and then evaporate. You can also try popping a drop of the fluid on the key just prior to oiling it.

Which brand of cigarette lighter fluid do you recommend for this? Do you use the same type for degreasing hinge tubes and pivot screws when dismantling a horn? Are certain lighter fluids to be avoided due to residue they leave behind?

 

[clarnibass]

Which type of oil do you use for pivot screws? Do you recommend Alisyn Heavy Duty Key Oil for hinge tubes?

For pivot screw I use either grease or a very thick oil I get from Kraus. Ultimax High is pretty similar. Although I use something else, yes, I would recommend Alisyn Heavy Duty for hinge tubes. Or Ultimax Medium which is very close if not the same (I can't remember exactly).

 

[saxmusicguy]

For pivot screw I use either grease or a very thick oil I get from Kraus. Ultimax High is pretty similar. Although I use something else, yes, I would recommend Alisyn Heavy Duty for hinge tubes. Or Ultimax Medium which is very close if not the same (I can't remember exactly).

What's the disadvantage to using very thick oil for hinge tubes? Aren't saxophone springs strong enough to easily overpower the added resistance produced by a thick oil? I ask this question because I'm contemplating ordering some Hetman Heavy Key Oil, which may be thicker than Alisyn Heavy Duty Key Oil. Perhaps a Hetman user can verify the viscosity.

 

[clarnibass]

What's the disadvantage to using very thick oil for hinge tubes? Aren't saxophone springs strong enough to easily overpower the added resistance produced by a thick oil?

The springs can definitely overcome this. Fingers too. The difference is tiny, but with a very accurate fit of hinge tubes over rod screws I find that it is possible to feel this slight difference, with the very thick oil adding just the tiniest bit of resistance. This is what I found when I fitted a key over its rod screw as good as it can be fitted, then checked without any oil, with thick oil and with medium oil. I'm not sure anyone would feel the difference much if at all when actually playing, but I can feel it when checking by gently and slowy operating the keys. This is enough reason for me so IMO the overall feel would be slightly better with what I consider medium oil.

Sorry I can't help re Hetman oils, but curious why do you specifically want this one and not one of the oils which are known to have a good viscosity for this purpose?

 

[Stephen Howard]

I agree with Clarnibass.
I do a lot of setups on new instruments, and as part of that spend a lot of time removing grease from rod screws.
It's a small thing, but one that I notice. It's most visible, generally, on octave key mechs - finger an octave G and lift the octave key pin with your finger and let it drop...a greased or heavy oil lubed mech will fall slowly.
In use it doesn't make that much of a difference - the horn will work - but once the action has been set as light as it ought to be there's a sense that it lacks 'zing'.

When compared to a horn that's lubed with a medium viscosity oil there's a noticeable difference in the feel...and the smaller the instrument, the more noticeable it is.

It's a small thing, a tiny percentage of what makes a horn feel good under the fingers - and you might as well have it if it's there.

Regards,

 

[shmuelyosef]

This is what I like about the MagnaLube...it's an extremely light grease, and has a fair mix of volatile components, but also lots of PTFE solids, so it completely disappears almost, but leaves the hingetubes smooth as silk and as fast as sewing machine oil, which I used to use. I found out about it from a guy the uses it by the nano-liter for pocket watches.

 

[saxmusicguy]

This is what I like about the MagnaLube...it's an extremely light grease, and has a fair mix of volatile components, but also lots of PTFE solids, so it completely disappears almost, but leaves the hingetubes smooth as silk and as fast as sewing machine oil, which I used to use. I found out about it from a guy the uses it by the nano-liter for pocket watches.

Do you just coat the hinge rods with MagnaLube, or do you also apply it inside the hinge tubes? Do you use a brush?