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And almost all of the people with asbestosis from the industrial facilities of the past are also heavy smokers.
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Not sure that's really a factor, as "almost all people from the industrial facilities of the past" were heavy smokers. Remember, in the '50s, doctors used to promote certain brands of cigarettes. (Well, actors playing doctors...) And no matter where you worked it was almost impossible to avoid breathing tobacco smoke in those times.

I remember seeing asbestos curtains in theaters as a kid, and certainly came in contact with pipe insulation and brake linings occasionally. I also (like my parents and grandparents) was a heavy smoker. Looks like I dodged a couple bullets... (I quit smoking in 1985.)
 

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In my 7th-grade science classroom in the mid-1960s, we commonly used asbestos gloves & asbestos insulating pads. We also rolled mercury around with our fingers, & breathed fumes of heated mercuric oxide.
And then you started playing saxophone? Ut oh.... :)
 

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No Bakelite mouthpieces but the Chinese refer to 'Bakelite' all the time in their mouthpiece descriptions. That's very unfortunate and definitely not true.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
... The only type I would suspect of being Bakelite would be the vintage ones with a metal table or metal chamber lining...
yes. those are some of the ones rumored to be made of bakelite. The name is possibly goldbeck?
 

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I have one of those old alto mouthpieces with a silver table; think it is named „Ben(t?) Davis Vocaltone Silverlay“.
The body material is hard rubber, not bakelite; but maybe there are different ones with different materials around.
 

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yes. those are some of the ones rumored to be made of bakelite. The name is possibly goldbeck?
There were many, I had a Kohlert one which I gave to a friend for his collection, I am quite sure the one I gave (tenor) was hard rubber and looked like like this Holton soprano

About the Yamaha that I mentioned above, SaXonat and I don’t think it is made of hard rubber. Also the Weltklang, to me was something different .

But the problem with this things is that it is relatively easy to say whether something is hard rubber ( friction test) but failing that est is still impossible to say what kind of plastic it is.



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But the problem with this things is that it is relatively easy to say whether something is hard rubber ( friction test) but failing that est is still impossible to say what kind of plastic it is.
I've heard that if you rub it a bit with a cotton swab wetted with 409 cleaning solution, and it picks up a yellow discoloration, then it's Bakelite.
 

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@chilehed thanks, if you rub ebonite too it will give also a yellow brown sulfur smelling stain. I am sure that it may overlap

a lot of the people " testing “ bakelite are doing this with resins that aren’t giving off any color at all, but ebonite will.

By the way on flute “ lip plates” , I have had ( and still have one) made of black plastic, mine, a Kohlert, is ebonite.
 

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I have also read about the 409 trick. However, sources also say that black bakelite is often immune to this test...I imagine black is used for mouthipeces (but not excusively).
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Thanks everyone for your informative posts. 😊
 

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Yes - just poor translating on the 'Bakelite' thing. At least since WWI, there are no Bakelite mouthpieces. I never saw one regardless of age.
 

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So from 1900 onward can anyone confirm the makers and the materials used ?
IMHO I don’t think any of the materials are toxic enough to harm someone. I know Holton and bakelite in 1924
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From the attached article on bakelite and asbestos: "Likewise, automotive mechanics who blew dust from wheel wells of vehicles with an air hose while changing asbestos brake pads or Bakelite brake cylinders were likely exposed to copious amounts of dust."

My dad was a mechanic in the 1950s right after WWII and moved on to other things by 1960. He specialized to a certain extent in brake jobs. In the mid-1960s his doctors thought he had tuberculosis and did surgery to remove about 1/3 of one of his lungs because of dark spots & scarring. He was always short of breath despite joining the YMCA and swimming several evenings a week.

By the early 1990s his lungs were fully involved with fibrosis which killed him at the age of 71. I'm convinced the years he spent blowing asbestos dust off brake parts was what slowly killed him though his doctors would never say so definitively. We discussed it once and he tried to discount it by saying, "we were always careful to blow the dust away from us." They just didn't know any better.

As turf3 and chilehead said above, as long as the asbestos isn't in an aerosol (friable) it won't hurt you. In fact, in the foothills near where I live naturally occurring asbestos is found in the soil. If you do have a mpc with asbestos fibers, which is doubtful, don't do any grinding on it. If you do grind, file or use sandpaper do it under a stream of water. The stuff is harmful but it isn't plutonium dangerous.
 

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As with all things, critically read what you see on the net. Google is not set up to give you the best answer for your question; it is set up to to give you the answer that pays the most to be featured first. For instance, if you try to search "mesothlioma", it is nearly impossible to find anything that is not either an ad for asbestos plaintiffs law firms or "fact" sites that are actually written and paid for by those same asbestos plaintiff law firms. The "mesothelioma news" site is a fine example of that. Nothing wrong with it, but it is the same as having a trial and allowing only the plaintiff or defendant to present evidence with no rebuttal or cross-examination allowed. If there are indeed Bakelite mouthpieces containing asbestos, there is a chance that you could become sick if you grinded down those mouthpieces 8 hours a day, every day, for 30 years. The likelihood of any sax player or repairman being affected by asbestos containing Bakelite is the same as Godzilla destroying your house with a nuclear fireball.
 

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In addition to the Holton mouthpiece above, WWCo put out the Chester Hazlett mouthpiece that has what appears to be a bakelite insert for the shank. Because of the different manufacturing process of vulcanization and thermoset plastic, I'm not sure how this was done and for what purpose other than bling. A nice metal band has the same bling value and would be simpler.

Mark

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
So from 1900 onward can anyone confirm the makers and the materials used ?
IMHO I don’t think any of the materials are toxic enough to harm someone. I know Holton and bakelite in 1924
View attachment 10081
Thanks for that Holton advertisement. Fascinating. The Bakelite information is on the right side under "The Construction".
 
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Well , we had a member “ Stan” who made mouthpieces, his first run was a hybrid made of pipe briar and plexiglass, later on he made only plexiglass mouthpieces and carrie the concept only in a decoration form but he started with mouthpieces which were half briar half plexiglass

this last one is one of the Trocadero mouthpieces where the briar is only a decorative element



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