[Jazz Is All]

I play T, A, S and enjoy all three greatly. I feel I have a good command of them. Since I only play for my own enjoyment now that age has made going out at night to jam in bars a counter-productive activity (the candle burned right into a heart attack 3 years ago) I would like to add another instrument to fool around on. I bought a coronet a couple of years ago and even took a lesson, but the fact that the scale with only 3 keys makes no sense to my linear sax and piano perspective, learning the thing has gone nowhere. It's all with embouchure and it's totally contrary to my sax trained chops. I tried putting a sax mouthpiece on the thing but you can imagine how successful that was. Eddie Harris I'm not.

Therefore I thought of flute, but when I tried one out at my Tech's store I found the arm position really uncomfortable for my slightly arthritic right shoulder joint. And of course like the coronet it has a dumb embouchure. I never could make whistles with pieces of grass nor whistle, so scrub that idea.

Hence I am thinking of the bass clarinet. For one thing I have always loved Eric Dolphy and while I know I could never play like him, perhaps I could learn to play something more standard somewhat decently. On top of it it's more like a tenor tonally, in being in Bb, and in the type of mouthpiece and the embouchure it requires. I have read that while the wooden ones are quite heavy, the plastic Vito Resotones are light. Anyway they have that foot support which will take the weight off while playing. I don't plan to take it anywhere so the weight doesn't matter otherwise. Regular straight clarinets don't interest me at all, and when I heard them referred to as the black torture stick by someone on this forum I knew for sure I don't want one of those.

So the question is how difficult is it to play the BC in terms of learning the Böhm system (or is it Oehler) with the octaves not breaking evenly? Is this a silly idea and a foolish idea? The used Vitos on Ebay are not that expensive (between $375 and $429 plus shipping from the USA to Spain which is the real killer) so I can afford it. I just don't want to find it is that different than sax that it's like starting all over again.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

JIA

 

[lesacks]

I've no idea.

But I follow this chap on YouTube and he makes based clarinet look like a blast

https://www.youtube.com/user/earspasm

 

[Jazz Is All]

I've no idea.

But I follow this chap on YouTube and he makes based clarinet look like a blast

https://www.youtube.com/user/earspasm

Yeah, he's fun and funny and sure has some fast fingering going.

 

[Arundo Donax]

The Earspasm site is not only entertaining, but highly instructive regardless of one's instrument.

Anyway, the bass clarinet has a wonderful sound and it even has a sounding range significantly beyond both the lower and higher notes of the tenor sax:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_clarinet

Michael Lowenstern recently reviewed a new Yamaha YCL-221 bass clarinet and had some useful observations:

As far as I know, bass clarinets today are Boehm system. I find clarinet fingering, any clarinet fingering, as a disruption to my automatic sax fingering. I'm used to seeing a note on the sheet and fingering it without thinking. Clarinet messes that up. Even so, many people manage to be fluent in both. 10,000 practice hours, yadda yadda.

Bass clarinets will be more expensive unless they're one-piece (some Bundys).

If you want something new, a challenge, and still a woodwind, there's always oboe.

 

[Jazz Is All]

If you want something new, a challenge, and still a woodwind, there's always oboe.

Yes, blues oboe is a totally unexplored genre so I could become a famous innovator too, right? Then I could double on bassoon too. Wouldn't that be fun.

 

[Arundo Donax]

Have you tried classical guitar?

 

[Jazz Is All]

Have you tried classical guitar?

You like to bust my balls, don't you? I wouldn't touch a guitar except to strangle some heavy metal wannabes with the strings of it.

No actually I have a number of guitar playing friends I made from jamming here and now my own son, who eschewed taking up alto back at age 9 when I tried to get him interested in it, got an electric guitar and is learning how to play rock on it. Man, talk about leading a horse to water and having it balk, this kid heard jazz from the time he was in the womb and look how he stabbed me in the back.

 

[cymru97]

I just picked up a $25 Yamaha soprano clarinet from a pawn shop yesterday. I always figured clarinet would be insurmountable with the little time I can dedicate to it, but I'm surprised at how quickly I started playing. I'm not good and know like 1/3 of the fingerings without a chart, but hey, it's day one! I haven't even started wrapping my head around the break, but I feel it's within reach.

I'd like to eventually borrow a friend's bass clarinet to give it a go as well. The range of the clarinet makes it a lot of fun and I managed a chromatic scale bottom to top. So all this to say, have you considered picking up a cheap student clarinet before jumping to the bass? I've been on the verge of purchasing a tenor guitar even though I have a HORRIBLE track record with string instruments. Have fun with it whatever you do, we only live once!

 

[Alphorn]

Even if you are not interested in soprano clarinet, it still would make sense to learn the fingerings on it. Student bass clarinets have only 1 register key, while pro instruments have 2. Crossing the break takes some practice on any clarinet but resistance in the upper register of a student bass clarinet is something entirely different compared to a soprano clarinet. From high g upwards you need to overcome that resistance and voice correctly to have the notes speak properly. It can be done as Michael Lowenstern aka earspasm shows in his reviews of student BCs and sound great even on those instruments. Just don't expect to practice for a week or two and to sound like him. Switching from overblowing an octave to the duodezime is managable. Starting on a soprano clarinet would allow you to concentrate just on that without addtional attention drained from your brain and fingers for the adjustment of aiflow.

Alphorn

 

[MojoBari]

Consider a bari sax or a wind synthesizer too.

 

[Jazz Is All]

Consider a bari sax or a wind synthesizer too.

It is only fitting that you would say try a Bari given your handle. And yes, it is the one sax that I always wanted to try but haven't. The problem is that a good one...and I would only want a good low A vintage one....are way out of my price range. On top of that they weigh a ton and my old body can't hack that weight. I've even been thinking of getting a bass clarinet type foot peg put on my tenor so I can stand longer, because I have never really liked playing seated. It inhibits my bodily freedom with the horn. So you can imagine a Bari. 16 tons. I know there are a couple of playing stands but they're like $200 to $300 just for the damn stand, never mind the sax.

So the bass clarinet is more accessible to me. Yeah the good ones cost 2 and 3 thou but at least the plastic resotone ones are light weight and used ones go for less than $400. Then too, as you mention, the other idea is a Roland AE-05 Go. I was first considering one of them before the bass clarinet idea, but the instrument sounds available without paying a couple of hundred more for the really good sound app haven't yet convinced me. Other than the trumpet and violins they sound artificial and synthetic to me, and I like real acoustic sounds. So yes, I am hesitant still. Hence this thread query.

BTW, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your great YouTube tutorial videos which over the years have helped me in the DIY maintenance of my horns. You are really a great person for helping so many people that way. So my hat is off to you.

 

[Jazz Is All]

I just picked up a $25 Yamaha soprano clarinet from a pawn shop yesterday. I always figured clarinet would be insurmountable with the little time I can dedicate to it, but I'm surprised at how quickly I started playing. I'm not good and know like 1/3 of the fingerings without a chart, but hey, it's day one! I haven't even started wrapping my head around the break, but I feel it's within reach.

I'd like to eventually borrow a friend's bass clarinet to give it a go as well. The range of the clarinet makes it a lot of fun and I managed a chromatic scale bottom to top. So all this to say, have you considered picking up a cheap student clarinet before jumping to the bass? I've been on the verge of purchasing a tenor guitar even though I have a HORRIBLE track record with string instruments. Have fun with it whatever you do, we only live once!

Your attitude is the one motivating me. I know that because we're both retired and what the hell do we have to lose anyway. Nothing ventured nothing gained, right? So I'm glad you are doing that. Stringed things do not attract me in the least. I've tried to finger them before and my hands rebel at the feel of the wires and the damn fretboard makes no sense to me at all. I'm a linear kind of guy....the chromatic scale does not jump all over the damn place like that IMO. So like the Cornet with only 3 valves is like trying to input a 12 digit PIN number on a 3 key keypad with some tic tac toe codes or playing music with morse code.

As to the Benny Goodman stick, it just doesn't attract me. The embouchure for one thing and because looking down at my feet is not what I like to do when I play. Hence my interest in the bass clarinet. It seems similar to a tenor, my fave sax, at least in the way the mpc goes in your mouth and you play it. Of course all those strange keys and the non-symmetrical break is off-putting, but it can't be insurmountable like playing trumpet.

So it's either a Roland AE-5 Go or a bass clarinet I think. Neither is more than 400€, the former new and the latter used off Ebay. If I sell a couple of mpcs it won't even feel like spending money. LOL

 

[Arundo Donax]

You like to bust my balls, don't you? I wouldn't touch a guitar except to strangle some heavy metal wannabes with the strings of it.

No actually I have a number of guitar playing friends I made from jamming here and now my own son, who eschewed taking up alto back at age 9 when I tried to get him interested in it, got an electric guitar and is learning how to play rock on it. Man, talk about leading a horse to water and having it balk, this kid heard jazz from the time he was in the womb and look how he stabbed me in the back.

Well, I suggested classical guitar only because I think they sound nice. I bought one and tried to learn it - it gave me upper arm pain for some reason. Even if classical guitar playing doesn't involve as many chord shapes as regular guitar, I couldn't do that either.

Anyway, until your post just above, I didn't know you weren't fond of stringed instruments. Good thing I didn't suggest cello.

 

[Jazz Is All]

Well, I suggested classical guitar only because I think they sound nice. I bought one and tried to learn it - it gave me upper arm pain for some reason. Even if classical guitar playing doesn't involve as many chord shapes as regular guitar, I couldn't do that either.

Anyway, until your post just above, I didn't know you weren't fond of stringed instruments. Good thing I didn't suggest cello.

Oh I love the way they sound and after hearing some great Spanish classical guitarists here in Barcelona I wouldn't even venture to imagine that I could play anything like that. No, instruments that you blow into are my thing and I would get a flute in a flash except that the hand and arm position would kill me. What I would get is one that has either a T head-joint so it can be held vertically or an angled head-joint so I could at least lower my arms. However, for some reason I can't quite fathom the only ones like that cost between $1700 and $3000. Just the angled head joint alone cost $1700, not even the flute. ***??? Makes no sense to me since plenty of people would go for those and how much can they possible cost to manufacture? Certainly not more than $150 at most I would imagine. It's just a frigging tube with an angle to it and the mouth hole and plate on it. It doesn't even have a tenon like on a sax. Highway robbery.

 

[Dr G]

I give a “Yes, please” to bass clarinet.

You are already aware of the “register” vs “octave”, so eyes are open going into this new territory. I like the sound of bass clarinet - even for beginners.

 

[tony51]

Yes, blues oboe is a totally unexplored genre so I could become famous the its innovator too, right?.

I'm afraid Yusuf Lateef got there before you.

 

[Arundo Donax]

... What I would get is one that has either a T head-joint so it can be held vertically or an angled head-joint ... the only ones like that cost between $1700 and $3000. Just the angled head joint alone cost $1700, not even the flute ... plenty of people would go for those and how much can they possible cost to manufacture?...

Seems like that is a business opportunity for someone. Maybe 3D print them.

If tenor sax sounds great to you, I think you'd enjoy the range and tone of the bass clarinet.

 

[Reedsmith]

Yusef Lateef was special on so many unusual horns, but I love his tenor solos. The oboe, though, has often seemed not so easy to sound fluent, even played by YL.
As for bass clarinet, I would say definitely go for it. The sonic possibilities are bewitching. The embouchure is often compared to that of the tenor, just a bit looser.

 

[Jazz Is All]

I give a "Yes, please" to bass clarinet.

You are already aware of the "register" vs "octave", so eyes are open going into this new territory. I like the sound of bass clarinet - even for beginners.

Thanks George. I do too, and I don't think I need to try and sound like Eric Dolphy either-----as if I ever could LOL. I have returned from the dead and am fully into playing more and more each day. The fact that I don't play out anymore....or right now, anyway.....has actually given me more motivation to master the art more than when I was out performing. Then I was so busy jamming and learning on the stage that I really didn't practice as much as I am now and it was a flaw in my approach. Now my attention is totally attuned to improving on each instrument and that means that a different horn will just be a good challenge with its own quirks and personality to learn. That's what we do on sax anyway, isn't it? So how will a bass clarinet be that much different other than for size, shape and the obvious differences in their key systems.

Whatever they are they sure aren't as whacko as trumpet with only 3 keys for 12 tones. Two down and one up or is it two up and one down? Which one down now, the 1st the second or the third? OMG....fuggedaboudit!! I mean, there are only 7 possible combinations and you have to repeat 5 of them to get all 12 tones. What sense does that make? If they had given it 4 valves you'd have 16 combinations, more than enough to play the whole chromatic scale. Of course you'd have to have more lengths of tubing I suppose or an octave mechanism but why not? Okay, I'm not knowledgable on that but the trumpet is dumb and the trombone even dumber.

Yes, the register thing is somewhat off-putting as are some of the alternate keys and fingerings I'll have to learn and the couple of open tone holes I think it has. However it still is closer to a sax than the Cornet I have tried to learn with little advancement. I mean I don't have a lifetime ahead to master blowing into a little cup or across an open hole as on the flute, if you know what I mean. I want to have fun, not suffer. So the fact that it has a big fat sax-type mpc with a reed is already more than half the game to my mind. I am actively playing SAT now almost daily and on each I play different mpcs cause I have so many and enjoy hearing and feeling if and how they are different and if I can make them sound the same with the right setup for each. The idea is to come out always sounding like me on the particular sax.

For instance today I played my Martin with a B&S bullet Chamber metal mpc that I am trying to sell, pairing it against my Berg SS Scoopbill offset .100 to compare and contrast them. After that I played the Metalite M9 against the other two for a total of over two hours of practice fun. While I have played the latter two extensively for years, the B&S has just sat in the drawer. As I'm gonna put it on consignment at my tech's shop I wanted to really give it a run through so I can see what it is worth and what I am letting go of two.

I used a variety of reed brands with hardnesses between 2.5 and 4, depending on the tip size, each time playing all three with the same reeds to see their response. The fact is that while the Berg is .100 and has the step baffle and the B&S is only .079 with a bullet chamber, they play and sound very similar expect that the Berg is a much bigger and louder sound when you want. But they can both play full and rich with the right reed and embouchure control. The B&S with the smaller tip and less extreme baffle can't scream as much as the Berg can if you want it too, which at home I don't. I did that at rock jams. The B&S does sound really good though, and I would venture that it is no different than a Berg Bullet Chamber piece of which it seems a copy. The Germans were no slouches and that B&S horn was a good one and this mpc is no different. The thing about both these mpcs is that with the right reed they are great Jazz, which is why guys like Wardell Gray, Sonny Rollins, Pete Christleib, Harold Land, Booker Ervin, David Murray, etc etc played them, but also great funk/rock pieces that guys like Ace Cannon, Lenny Pickett, Sam Butera, King Curtis, Jr. walker, Clarence Clemmons and Grover Washington Jr. all rocked out on.

What I'm getting at here is that the way I play and deal with the tools of playing....horn, mpcs, reeds....is to learn as much as possible about how each works in concert with the others so I can make them work together to sound the way I want for the music I'm playing. I'm not one of these guys who tries a mpc for a half an hour and says no go. I used to and bought and sold a number of the touted ones. What I have now are pieces that I know work for me and can control better and better all the time. As a result I think I have developed fairly sensitive and aware chops that won't be put off too much by leaning how to make this new size/type reed instrument and its bigger mouthpiece sound good. Long Tones to begin with up and down, chromatic scales up and down, harmonics up and down, and all the basic practice stuff I already do everyday anyway is my plan and I think it could be a fun journey and quite a rewarding one.

So unless lightening strikes with a message from the heavens saying don't do it I'm going to go for it. Right after I sell the damn Cornet and 2 mpcs. That will insure that I have a minus to show the woman I share my life with to counter balance the addition of yet another instrument. I'm more afraid of her than any voice from the sky.:badgrin:

 

[Jazz Is All]

Yusef Lateef was special on so many unusual horns, but I love his tenor solos. The oboe, though, has often seemed not so easy to sound fluent, even played by YL.
As for bass clarinet, I would say definitely go for it. The sonic possibilities are bewitching. The embouchure is often compared to that of the tenor, just a bit looser.

There is a guy here in Barcelona who plays in the Afrobeat Ensemble on Bassoon, if you can believe that. I jammed with them twice and he sounds great. Funky as all get out on that music as well as on reggae and Ska. When I first saw him on stage I thought WTH, but once they were playing it was great. The other horns are a T-bone and trumpet. No sax so it was perfect for me to sit in with them. Frankly I can't even imagine what playing a bassoon is like nor do I have an inclination to try one. That double reed is scary, just in price alone. Maybe you can you blow down the open end of it and make it sound like a didgeredoo instead. IDK.