[MaxTT]

Here's a quick and dirty sound clip which may give an idea of the Intramic v other mics. I bought this mic for live use so the real competition here is your bog standard 58 and a wireless clip on (admittedly a cheaper capsule one)

There are 4 mics:

1) A Large Diaphragm Condensor modelled on a U47
2) An SM58
3) A Samson clip on wireless
4) Intramic

The clips below are not in this order though...this has to be scientifical

*****New files found in post further down*****

Goes without saying that headphones/decent speakers will probably be needed to hear differences.

There's also a poll to see if you picked it HERE

 

[1saxman]

Don't know but like #1.

 

[HeavyWeather77]

#3 sounds the best to me, followed by #1 (I wouldn't consider 2 or 4 useable), but it seems like there's some pretty gnarly room-honk that would put a sensitive mic like a 47 at a disadvantage. Or any mic that's a foot or two away, really.

I appreciate you taking the time to do the shootout, though, and I'm curious what the results are! I'm also curious what the 47-style mic you're using is. There are hundreds of 47-inspired mics out there, and it's a tall order to make anything affordable that's supposed to come close to a $15,000 vintage classic, but I've heard some of them (like Warm and Advanced Audio) can be quite good.

 

[SimonJazzSax]

#1 and #3 are the best.

I think with a shootout you should post with no reverb or eq etc. It colors the sound and makes it sound different. That's just my personal opinion though.

Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk

 

[MaxTT]

@Heavy, I am using the Slate digital modelling mic. So it's a large diaphragm condenser and preamp and you chose the mic that sounds/suits best. I chose the Blackbird U47 model for this. I usually find the U67 sounds best to my ears but today not so. If the horn/player sounds darker, sometimes the C12 model is great.

I wanted to include the 58 and clip on, as I don't think the Intra is meant to (completely) replace a LDC, it's a live option so I wanted to compare 2 usual live options (did not have a SM57 handy).

@Simon, should have mentioned, No eq used (you are just hearing an untreated room (with quite a bit of reflective surfaces). Was very hard for a 'tweaker' like me not to want to eq the sounds to be more pleasing! A very small amount of plate reverb on a bus, and all mics have exactly the same amount (although I could have gone dry I suppose).

 

[mmichel]

#3 sounds the best to me, followed by #1 (I wouldn't consider 2 or 4 useable), but it seems like there's some pretty gnarly room-honk that would put a sensitive mic like a 47 at a disadvantage. Or any mic that's a foot or two away, really.

I appreciate you taking the time to do the shootout, though, and I'm curious what the results are! I'm also curious what the 47-style mic you're using is. There are hundreds of 47-inspired mics out there, and it's a tall order to make anything affordable that's supposed to come close to a $15,000 vintage classic, but I've heard some of them (like Warm and Advanced Audio) can be quite good.

#1 and #3 are the best.

I think with a shootout you should post with no reverb or eq etc. It colors the sound and makes it sound different. That's just my personal opinion though.

Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk

+1

#3 sounds the best to me, followed by #1, but the (different?) effects and room sound makes it hard to discern what is attributable to the mic itself.

I would guess that the intramic must be either #1 or #3 because #2 and #4 sound as if they are much farther from the horn (i.e., much more room sound). It would be interesting to hear the comparison done without effects and in a more "dry" room, or at least someplace (outdoors, say) where the room sound was not so prominent.

 

[SimonJazzSax]

@Heavy, I am using the Slate digital modelling mic. So it's a large diaphragm condenser and preamp and you chose the mic that sounds/suits best. I chose the Blackbird U47 model for this. I usually find the U67 sounds best to my ears but today not so. If the horn/player sounds darker, sometimes the C12 model is great.

I wanted to include the 58 and clip on, as I don't think the Intra is meant to (completely) replace a LDC, it's a live option so I wanted to compare 2 usual live options (did not have a SM57 handy).

@Simon, should have mentioned, No eq used (you are just hearing an untreated room (with quite a bit of reflective surfaces). Very hard for a 'tweaker' like me not to want to eq the sounds to be more pleasing! A very small amount of plate reverb on a bus, and all mics have exactly the same amount (although I could have gone dry I suppose).

I can't find a way to do the clever hide/reveal text thing, so here are the mics in order:
1) Intramic
2) Clip on mic
3) Slate LDC (U47 model)
4) Sm 58

Even that plate reverb is pretty audible. I'd go totally dry personally.

Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk

 

[MaxTT]

That's an interesting comment mmichel. All the mics (other than intra in the neck), were close. The U47 and SM58 were almost touching. The clip on was perhaps 10cm further away.

If I get time I will try and do a room less dry version.

 

[HeavyWeather77]

@Heavy, I am using the Slate digital modelling mic. So it's a large diaphragm condenser and preamp and you chose the mic that sounds/suits best. I chose the Blackbird U47 model for this. I usually find the U67 sounds best to my ears but today not so. If the horn/player sounds darker, sometimes the C12 model is great.

Interesting, the Intramic sounds surprisingly good! I need to look into that thing more. Very cool.

Slate makes some good stuff. I've heard a lot of people talk about the Townsend Sphere, but not as many talk about the Slate modeling mic. Seems like quite a lot of fun, though!

 

[jman1977]

@Heavy, I am using the Slate digital modelling mic. So it's a large diaphragm condenser and preamp and you chose the mic that sounds/suits best. I chose the Blackbird U47 model for this. I usually find the U67 sounds best to my ears but today not so. If the horn/player sounds darker, sometimes the C12 model is great.

Interesting, the Intramic sounds surprisingly good! I need to look into that thing more. Very cool.

Slate makes some good stuff. I've heard a lot of people talk about the Townsend Sphere, but not as many talk about the Slate modeling mic. Seems like quite a lot of fun, though!

The Townsend Lab Sphere L22 is superior to the Slate. I chose between the two. Not even close. When I got the L22 I sold my Neumann U87, Royer R101 and R122, Coles 4038, Sennheiser MD441, a couple of AKG C414';s and my other lesser mics.

The L22 has 2 capsules compared to 1 for the VMS. The L22 models about 4 times as many different mics as the VMS. The L22 also lets you change the mics (you can use a different mic model on the left and right channel) after you';ve already tracked. That way you can track with a different model or models and then audition and decide later on (even after you've finished recording) which mic or mics you';re going with. Bunch of other really cool features.

Of course, the L22 also costs twice as much at retail ($1,500 vs $700) but I got mine off CL for around $900. It also works best with a UAD Apollo interface, which will cost another couple of hundred to couple of thousand bucks.

 

[MaxTT]

I redid the files and realised that first time around, I was not capturing the 58 and the clip on, but the Tascam recorder's inbuilt mics.

Files are 48k 24bit wavs. No eq, no reverb, recorded under a doona!

This time around we have:

Sm 58 - clip 1
Intramic -clip 2
Samson clip on - clip 3
Slate LDC U47 model - clip4

https://soundcloud.com/greg-jones-599841399%2Fsets%2Fintramic-shootout-v2 N.B - The Samson sounds a bit distorted but was not clipping on unit...must have been too hot from wireless unit going in....either way it always was a bit thin sounding live.

 

[MaxTT]

The L22 also lets you change the mics (you can use a different mic model on the left and right channel) after you';ve already tracked. That way you can track with a different model or models and then audition and decide later on (even after you've finished recording) which mic or mics you';re going with. Bunch of other really cool features.
].

This is what I like about the Slate as well...track then scroll through and find which mic suits best. Have not listened to the Townsends yet. we are very lucky with choice in this day and age.

 

[jman1977]

This is what I like about the Slate as well...track then scroll through and find which mic suits best. Have not listened to the Townsends yet. we are very lucky with choice in this day and age.

Indeed, we are very lucky. I really recommend that you check out the Townsend if you get the chance. Another benefit of the dual capsule, aside from the ability to track in stereo and use a different mic model on each channel, is that it captures not just the sound of the mic it models, but also the 3D behavior (depth and direction). You change the on-axis/off-axis behavior, you can change the proximity effect, and you can even reverse the phase and apply different patterns (cardioid, hypercardioid, figure 8, etc.) even if the original mic did not have that particular pattern (a huge benefit when I can use a ribbon mic but with a hypercardioid pattern instead of just the default figure 8, for example).

Thanks for doing these comparisons. I have the intramic and I've only been able to use it once in a live setting. I haven't thought of using it in the studio -- my Townsend has more than enough great mics for me to choose from. I loved it the one time I've been able to use it.

 

[mmichel]

I redid the files and realised that first time around, I was not capturing the 58 and the clip on, but the Tascam recorder's inbuilt mics.

Aha! So perhaps that explains why those clips sounded like the mic was farther away?

Anyway, on these new clips, the Samson and SM58 sound much better.

 

[MaxTT]

Yes, spot on Mmichel! I am actually surprised how good the 58 sounds.

 

[jman1977]

I redid the files and realised that first time around, I was not capturing the 58 and the clip on, but the Tascam recorder's inbuilt mics.

Files are 48k 24bit wavs. No eq, no reverb, recorded under a doona!

This time around we have:

Sm 58 - clip 1
Intramic -clip 2
Samson clip on - clip 3
Slate LDC U47 model - clip4

https://soundcloud.com/greg-jones-599841399%2Fsets%2Fintramic-shootout-v2 N.B - The Samson sounds a bit distorted but was not clipping on unit...must have been too hot from wireless unit going in....either way it always was a bit thin sounding live.

Listening with my regular headphones and then my studio headphones. My pick would be between the SM58 and the intramic. The Samson sounds too buzzy and also honky. The Slate sounds muffled.

I'm actually surprised the SM58 doesn't sound buzzy as well, because that has been my experience with them in the studio setting (they do tend to hype up the higher frequencies). I used to own an SM58 and SM57 and preferred the SM57 because it did not hype the higher frequencies as much.

Between the SM58 and intramic, the intramic has more body while the SM58 sounds a bit hollower. Again, I'm surprised that the SM58 sounds that way in these clips.

EDIT: Added the frequency response chart for the SM58. You'll see where it boosts the frequencies between 2K-8K by around 4-5 dbs, then again at 9K-10K. Also added the frequency response chart for the SM57. There is still some boosting in the higher frequencies going on, but it's in a narrower band and the slope is more gradual. The first chart is for the SM58 and the second chart is for the SM57. I can't find a chart for the intramic; it would be interesting to see what that looks like.

 

[HeavyWeather77]

I redid the files and realised that first time around, I was not capturing the 58 and the clip on, but the Tascam recorder's inbuilt mics.

Hah, that makes a lot more sense! I was trying not to be mean, but I was wondering why those two versions sounded so... um... bad. :mrgreen: A much more even playing-field now!

Samson wireless mic rigs can be very tricky with gain and clipping. I use an old AMT wireless mic, from back when they used Samson transmitters and receivers instead of their own, and I always have to be very careful about my gain-staging. It can clip like crazy if I'm not careful. It's a wonderful sounding live mic when things are dialed in, and I've had mostly good experiences with the much-more-affordable Samson Airline as well.

I think in your new clip that the Shure is my favorite. Sometimes a 57 or 58 gets the best take, they're the most serviceable $100 mics out there! I love a good large-diaphragm condenser on tenor and I'm extremely happy with my main one at the moment. But a solid dynamic mic is often the better tool for the job, particularly if your source is loud enough (which saxophones indeed are) and your room isn't the best-sounding environment.

 

[jman1977]

Listening with my regular headphones and then my studio headphones. My pick would be between the SM58 and the intramic. The Samson sounds too buzzy and also honky. The Slate sounds muffled.

I'm actually surprised the SM58 doesn't sound buzzy as well, because that has been my experience with them in the studio setting (they do tend to hype up the higher frequencies). I used to own an SM58 and SM57 and preferred the SM57 because it did not hype the higher frequencies as much.

Between the SM58 and intramic, the intramic has more body while the SM58 sounds a bit hollower. Again, I'm surprised that the SM58 sounds that way in these clips.

EDIT: Added the frequency response chart for the SM58. You'll see where it boosts the frequencies between 2K-8K by around 4-5 dbs, then again at 9K-10K. Also added the frequency response chart for the SM57. There is still some boosting in the higher frequencies going on, but it's in a narrower band and the slope is more gradual. The first chart is for the SM58 and the second chart is for the SM57. I can't find a chart for the intramic; it would be interesting to see what that looks like.

To clarify further, for a lot of vocals a boost in the high end is usually desirable (adds sheen and sparkle to the recording). For the saxophone, however, it's the opposite (especially in the studio setting -- maybe not so much in a live setting) unless you're going for a very specific sound. It's more common to cut at the higher frequencies when it comes to the saxophone because otherwise the sound would be too harsh to the ears.

The SM58 is intended to be more of a vocal mic. For some reason in the audio clips the SM58 is not behaving as expected and sounds mellower than usual. I would note that the MD-441 is also a dynamic mic, but it does not boost the higher frequencies like the SM58 does, which makes it more suitable for the sax (as well as other horns).

Attached are charts showing the frequency response of the MD441 compared to the SM57 and the SM58. Notice how there's almost no boosting at all with the MD441 (very tiny boost at around 8.5k).

 

[MaxTT]

Jman this 58 is 20 years old so this may be a factor. I actually recorded some demo horn parts for a song using this mic (full on 'garage' style song), and I kept them because they had a certain sound and cut that none of my other LDC mics could match. Horses for courses I guess.

At the end of the day though, this test is supposed to be about a mic for live settings so for authenticity we would need to redo this test in a noisy bar with poor sound treatment and a disinterested sound man!

 

[jman1977]

Jman this 58 is 20 years old so this may be a factor. I actually recorded some demo horn parts for a song using this mic (full on 'garage' style song), and I kept them because they had a certain sound and cut that none of my other LDC mics could match. Horses for courses I guess.

At the end of the day though, this test is supposed to be about a mic for live settings so for authenticity we would need to redo this test in a noisy bar with poor sound treatment and a disinterested sound man!

Understood. Yeah, for live settings there';s really no need to be fussy about the mic (other than some mics being more susceptible to bleed from other instruments and to feedback and more fragile) because the nuances get lost anyway (venues are noisy to begin with).

It';s only in the studio setting where the nuances matter a lot.