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Discussion Starter #1
I'm not sure if anyone has seen those Conn/Selmer video ads on Facebook, but I came across an interesting one regarding the Serie II Jubilee alto. The ad states that the body tube is indeed the VI design. This corresponds with a chart of measurements that a tech made some years back. If I recall correctly, the differences between a VI and the Serie II (alto pitched) are narrowed down to changes in the neck, and lower tonehole size/placement. The changes aren't as extreme as one would think either. I just found the fact that Selmer is advertising this information as interesting.
 

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Yeah, interesting. My own, personal experience with a lot of vintage Selmer altos/tenors is that the neck contains much/most of the diff in sound and response. Yes, the body/bell matters, but swapping vintage necks can really change how a vintage or modern horns sound and plays.
 

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I don’t know which ad you mean. Can you publish it?


Incidentally CONN -Selmer USA is an unrelated to Henri Selmer Paris France company ( confusing though the name is!) , which only works as distributor in the USA but has no part in ownership and fabrication of the Selmer company ( which has been recently sold to a new owner and was always family owned by the Selmer family for 130 years)

 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don’t know which ad you mean. Can you publish it?


Incidentally CONN -Selmer USA is an unrelated to Henri Selmer Paris France company ( confusing though the name is!) , which only works as distributor in the USA but has no part in ownership and fabrication of the Selmer company ( which has been recently sold to a new owner and was always family owned by the Selmer family for 130 years)

I'll see if I can dig the ads up. This is the closest one that I can find on their Facebook page, though I think that I saved a screenshot. I'm familiar with the relationship between Conn/Selmer and Henri Selmer Paris, but I think that the former intentionally blurs the lines in their advertising for marketing purposes.

https://www.facebook.com/connselmerinc/videos/718937568500781/
 

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Thanks, I don’t use facebook, on principle. can’t open that link
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You guys are probably better off avoiding that cesspool. In any event, Conn/Selmer posted one of the ads I saw on a more accessable platform. Eureka!

https://youtu.be/tfpsFVz2zrI
 

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I am pretty sure they are marketing that the body tube is the same as the Mark VI to appease all of the “why can’t we have another Mark VI” people. Of course I am one of them. If they advertise it, it is likely true and I had seen it before on Facebook ads as well. This would lead me to believe Selmer upgraded things as they went on, but kept the VI body tube for some special reason.
 

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I am pretty sure they are marketing that the body tube is the same as the Mark VI to appease all of the “why can’t we have another Mark VI” people. Of course I am one of them. If they advertise it, it is likely true and I had seen it before on Facebook ads as well. This would lead me to believe Selmer upgraded things as they went on, but kept the VI body tube for some special reason.
 

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You can embed videos so that they show here




Confusing, indeed, The ad appears to have been produced by Conn-Selmer which is not involved either financially or technically with the Henri Selmer Paris France, but they mention specifically the band and this plus being the same body of the Mark VI.

After the VII, a great and misunderstood horn , they did make attempts to convince the market that they had the same this that or the other ( I thought this was the series III) but anyway never convinced the public.

My contention is that anyone, even Selmer, even if the could prove they are making an exact ( and probably better now than they did in the past) of itself they would never ever be believed.

The market is weird, this is a market that truly believes that anything old is per definition better than its “ evolution”.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I always forget about the embed feature. I typically use the quick reply on the traditional UI from a mobile device. I'll refresh myself on that particular bit of html code.


There was a chart that a tech posted somewhere here a few years back that mapped out tonehole placement on a slew of modern horns. I do recall that later VI's were very similar in measurements to the latter Selmers, though it's obvious that keywork and necks were changed rather significantly. There's a lot that goes into a horn, and sometimes (often) brand (or model) name recognition can convince players that they need "a particular saxophone" to have the best horn ever.

It's funny, thinking back to my time as a high schooler, I believe that it was my European friends on this forum that explained the entire Selmer USA and Henri Selmer relationship. The names and USA logo are used so interchangeably on this side of the pond that many young players do believe that they're the same company. It seems that Selmer USA knowingly plays into this, and is allowed to as part of their US distribution deal with Henri Selmer. I mean, USA VI's often had the SELMER USA logo stamped below the Henri Selmer Paris logo. To be honest, I'm surprised that they stopped that particular practice. The logo is still usually found on the cases of modern Paris horns though.
 

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@Superaction80
I help a lot of students find instruments. I used to give general information to parents about good brands and tell them I would like to help.
Most of the time the parents take my advice and I give them a lot of food options and they make a fantastic purchase. Other times they take the first mention with name brands and then google places to get the instruments as cheap as possible. Last year I told a parent about Selmer, Yamaha, and Yanagisawa, explained models and price points, and asked what they would be interested in my helping to find. The next week the student had a Selmer USA modern horn in poor condition they got off eBay for like $800.
So nowadays when a parent says they are interested in a instrument for their student, I specify that I want to help, but that in doing so I will have to offer them 1-2 pages of saxophone information. If they accept, I send them a ton of info and no parents have their kids show up with a broken intermediate model anymore.
Selmer USA is a good distributor, but their horns are *not* Selmer Paris. Many have fallen for this.
To revert back to the main topic, I wonder if Selmer USA horns even use the same body tube as the Mark VI like the Paris horns.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@Superaction80
I help a lot of students find instruments. I used to give general information to parents about good brands and tell them I would like to help.
Most of the time the parents take my advice and I give them a lot of food options and they make a fantastic purchase. Other times they take the first mention with name brands and then google places to get the instruments as cheap as possible. Last year I told a parent about Selmer, Yamaha, and Yanagisawa, explained models and price points, and asked what they would be interested in my helping to find. The next week the student had a Selmer USA modern horn in poor condition they got off eBay for like $800.
So nowadays when a parent says they are interested in a instrument for their student, I specify that I want to help, but that in doing so I will have to offer them 1-2 pages of saxophone information. If they accept, I send them a ton of info and no parents have their kids show up with a broken intermediate model anymore.
Selmer USA is a good distributor, but their horns are *not* Selmer Paris. Many have fallen for this.
To revert back to the main topic, I wonder if Selmer USA horns even use the same body tube as the Mark VI like the Paris horns.
Early Omegas were pretty close VI clones, so I'd assume that modern "USA" (not USA) horns have bores that are very similar to the VI. As I previously said, a lot goes into a horn. So, the exact specs of a VI bore are basically useless IF the mechanism can't work properly to implement it. Then there are potential issues with materials and tooling themselves that may not allow the "on paper" specs to translate well into the finished product. By in large though, I agree with your assessment that most people are becoming aware of that fact that good and inexpensive saxophones can exist in the same universe. I've had more than one parent understand what good horns were, found a dirt cheap one at a flea market, and put $400 into an overhaul, because they understood the resale value in conjunction with the playability of the horn.
 
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