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Forum Contributor 2012, SOTW Saxophone Whisperer,
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Discussion Starter #1
This is a video I made the other day while re-springing a Mark VI alto.

This does not cover removal or giving tension to the spring after it is installed.

It covers removing bluing by heat, cutting, flattening the end, and installation.

Enjoy..
Charlie

 

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Distinguished SOTW Technician, Forum Contributor 2
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Yes, nice video. A question and a couple of comments...
I don't understand why you say that you remove the bluing by heat. I see the need to anneal the end before flattening it to avoid splitting, but I don't see a need to remove the bluing. What purpose does that serve?

I'm pretty anal about not over-flattening the spring to avoid making the hole bigger every time I put in a spring. I sometimes have to flatten the spring and do a trial fit more than once to get a snug fit without "ripping a new one" in the post.

I like Votaw's spring cutters much better than most diagonal cutters. Votaw's cutters provide a cleaner cut without the free end of the spring flying across the bench.

I dress the flattened end of the spring before inserting to avoid a ragged point out the back of the post that will shred cleaning cloths and fingers.

I started dabbing a smidgen of anti-seize with a tiny paintbrush on the flattened end to help keep springs from rusting in the posts and to aid in the insertion and the possible later removal.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

Again, thanks for the video. Well done.
 

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Yes, nice video. A question and a couple of comments...
I don't understand why you say that you remove the bluing by heat. I see the need to anneal the end before flattening it to avoid splitting, but I don't see a need to remove the bluing. What purpose does that serve?
It's a side-effect of annealing the spring, that's all.

I tend to find I get better results on the flare by using a hammer with a slightly rounded head - there's less chance of an edge creating a step in the flare. I couldn't quite see the hammer head in detail, so it might well be slightly rounded.

Nice video - but you so need a tripod ;)

Regards,
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Technician
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Cool.

The only differences I do charlie are, I kind of cherry the end a bit more, enough to allow me to flatten real easy but not enough to remove some of the strength on the exposed section of the spring, I also use the ball side of a ball peen hammer. Followed by a file across the end to square it up a bit (no real reason I just like it squared)
 

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Forum Contributor 2012, SOTW Saxophone Whisperer,
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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys!

Believe it or not I did this video on my new cell phone kinda spur of the moment. I do wish they made tripods for camera phones. :)

I have a few more ideas of other videos, but this started out wondering if I could successfully capture the removal of bluing on camera.

anyhow,
thanks again.
 

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I think I counted 52 hits with the hammer which seems a bit excessive to me. The end looks a bit too flattened to me. I look to do a nice tampered wedge shape and usually use about 5 hits. It only seems necessary to use a torch on the thicker springs.
 

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If you don't heat the end they crack?
They can do - depends on the quality and the size of the spring.

They can also crack in such a way that you can't see it - and it's only once the spring has been installed that the crack 'goes critical'.

Regards,
 

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Forum Contributor 2012, SOTW Saxophone Whisperer,
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Discussion Starter #12
I think I counted 52 hits with the hammer which seems a bit excessive to me. The end looks a bit too flattened to me. I look to do a nice tampered wedge shape and usually use about 5 hits. It only seems necessary to use a torch on the thicker springs.
OMG - People counting my hammer strokes........good grief!!!!! If you must know I was going soft to make sure the process was shown. If I am going to demonstrate via video, I don't want to loose the target audience.

Speaking of the target audience of the video, I was aiming for the general saxophonist who was wondering how it is done. I know many things I could of added to make a dissertation out of it, however it's a 3 min youtube video, not a college course for credit.

The fact many reputable colleagues have commented flatters me, and thank you for that. Their comments show that there are certainly many ways to skin a cat, but in general, we are all on a similar page.

And BTW - I will bet you that my 52 times hit spring will act and last just like your 5 time hit spring. In the end the performance of the spring will be the same.
 

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Stop tickling it and hit the damn thing :) I do the same technique except 1-2 wacks with the hammer does the job.

You confirmed what I already new how to do...but others may not.
 

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Thanks guys!

I do wish they made tripods for camera phones. :)
I have a tripod adapter for my iPhone 4. It's pretty sweet. :)

Geoff
 

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that looks like the flat part of the spring, possibly harder than the post, could deform the hole?

why dont they make them with with the right size end to just press them in and trim the other end?
 

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that looks like the flat part of the spring, possibly harder than the post, could deform the hole?
It does, it bites in to the brass.

why dont they make them with with the right size end to just press them in and trim the other end?
Because there isn't a right size.
The springs only get replaced so many times during the life of a horn, and in general the hole doesn't get that damaged by the procedure - but a hole that's seen, say, four or five springs fitted may need a wider flare than one that's seen only one or two.
Then there are the holes that have been butchered - usually by spring removal.

Regards,
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2009
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To get a decent dovetail you need to "peen" the flat end a lot with light strokes as Charlie did, leave them alone on the 52 blows for god's sake!

I use an old spring hammer I got from a period correct (old, as the hammer! hehe) gunsmith I apprenticed with. I don't remove the blueing but use several lighter strokes and I flip the spring so both sides gets hammered. To avoid enlargening the hole in the post (Sorry Jorns, but being anal on the springs will end up enlargening the hole heheh :mrgreen: ) I change the position in wich the dovetail wedges into the post. And I use the hole in the spring pliers, not the tip.
 

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it seems like a good opportunity to standardize to me. it seems the pressed in end could be standardized to a few sizes. maybe a a stepped rod on one end where you can cut off the ones too big and trim the other end to length. do it for 5 or 6 spring diameters and youd have it. that might not work because of the way the make the spring steel rods but this sure looks like a place you could reduce variability. i see several sources: how tight you fit in the hole - if it wobbles its bad; post hole size; rod smashed end size; length of annealed rod section - affecting perm set, creep, and spring rate;

blued steel wouldnt be my first choice for corrosion either.

i did think it was a great vid though and with practice and skill, it works.
 

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Forum Contributor 2012, SOTW Saxophone Whisperer,
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Discussion Starter #20
I'm pretty sure they do.


Is it an iPhone? I already watched the clip but if it's an iPhone I should know so I don't accidently watch it again :)
It is not an IPhone - but rather an HTC Trophy - kinda like the windows version of an IPhone. Much Cheaper (it was a free upgrade for me on my plan). Maybe not as nice, but I will say it is the best phone I've owned so far.
 
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