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got my tech to change the cork and was fine but took it home an played for an hour and i got the same issue again.. the mouthpiece is loose again

he said he put the standard size on 1/16

what size is recommended..

I'm playing on a superking LT gurdala
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
To answer your question for most mouthpieces 1/16" cork sanded lightly is the correct diameter. On some necks 3/32" is required if the mouthpiece also has a large diameter shank. Every set-up is slightly different.

How close to the end of the neck is your mouthpiece? It may be that it does not cover enough of the cork for a solid fit regardless of the tightness of the cork.

One more thing to check is with the neck tightening screw just barely snug, can you wobble the neck in the receiver? If you can there is a possibility that the neck tenon is not air tight and needs to be refit. Be aware that when you play and put downward pressure on the top of the mouthpiece with your top teeth you can change the angle of the mouthpiece or neck or both and cause one or the other to leak where they didn't when you first started to play.


John
 

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had the burble fixed with my tech.. by adjusting the neck somehow and tightening the neck tenon...

but after a month or so its back now.. any other things to check for this problem

starts on D now..
 

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I'm curious to see a spectral analysis of the ouput of a horn while it's "motorboating". My tenor used to do that sometimes on the low D, especially if using an old reed. I don't think that resultant sound is caused by rapid transition between octaves. It certainly doesn't sound that way to my ears. I tried to duplicate the sound by rapidly trilling all sorts of note combinations, but never came up with anything that was really close. That suggests to me that motorboating is non-linear (or inharmonic). I'm not sure of the mechanism that would cause inharmonic series to develop. They aren't stable, and so are probably hard to study.
I've never had a horn that warbles on low B or C. It's always D for me.
Perhaps there are a couple of different phenomena here that are labeled with the same word.
My tenor warbles on D too. No other notes, just D. It really bugs me. When I have other guys play my horn it doesn't do it. And I find if I relax my embochure and open my throat, it stops the warbling. So I think it's caused by the way I'm blowing the air and not the horn :?
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Try taking your mouthpiece and neck off the sax and playing on the neck only. If the note is higher than E concert, that could be part of the problem. The tenor seems to work the best with that input pitch. In my experience the sax should be played with an open relaxed throat on all tones, but it is especially critical in the low register.

Another thing to check is the opening of the low C key. If it is too closed, it can make the low D unstable. If you have an adjustable bumper, back it out to open the key and try the D again. A leak in the low C# may also be contributing to the problem. Play low D and then press the low C# key. If it improves it may be a leak in the low C# key or a venting problem with the D. Check the low C# with a leak light if you have one.

One last thought. Make sure the back of the tongue is down as if singing "AHH" when playing the low notes. It should not be necessary to relax the embouchure to play any of the low notes clearly if all the other elements are in order.

John
 

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I have had this problem with a couple of saxes over the years. An Adolphe Sax/Selmer alto motorboated on low C, I took it to Jack FInucane at Boston Sax Shop who replaced the side C spring to increase the tension. It was leaking when the horn was played. Cured. With my Conn Bb soprano 25154, just overhauled at Virtusoty Music in Boston, motorboating on C was an issue. Another player had no trouble. Very diligent study showed no leaks. I even found a way to play the horn with a light in it, placing tin foil in the bow and shining a light in the bell, to show that there was no leak--none--at play. Not on the side keys, not in the palm keys, nowhere.

Putting the mouthpiece waaaaay in and using a large chamber piece helped but did not eliminate the motorboating. So I figured it's an acoustic problem, we have to take energy out of the upper overtones. A piece of wine cork in the bow worked fine but had to be so large as to make low D really flat. So I cut a rectangle of 1/8 inch sheet cork, 1 3/4 x 2 3/4 inches. I stuffed it into the bell and with the C key removed, used a chop stick to push it and position it between the E-flat, C and C# toneholes on the inner aspect of the bore on the left side. This removed as much volume from the bore as the champagne cork fragment had but without obstructing the C key and making D play flat. The tension of the cork sheet holds it in place.

Now I can use any mouthpiece and there is no motorboating. Problem solved.

Another commentator on a similar thread mentioned the work of physicist Arthur Benade and used his analysis to address this issue. I took his storied "Acoustical evolution of woodwind instruments" seminar in Fall 1977, he discussed this trick then. I have used a mouthpiece cap or a champagne cork many a time over the years. This is the first time I have ever fitted a prosthesis, but it looks like a good solution. Took me about 30 minutes, most of it spent putting the C key back on.

View down bell. Bb to top right. Cork at bottom just past C# tone hole

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View into bore of body thru C key. Eb is out of view on left at 7:00. Rear Eb is at 9:00. Cork has cracked on its leading edge.

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View into C key tone hole (which vents D). Saxophone body to left, fell to right. Cork edges on tone hole.

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View into bore of bell through C key's hole. Cork on edge of C# tone hole.

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Any of your repair guys who use this trick, please send me a tenner. You're welcome!
Robert Howe, Wilbraham MA
 

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this is the equivalent of what SELMER US ( ONLY in the US they seem to have had gurgles, I had one, French Assembled, of the same series as this but had NO gurgle ) happend by soldering a piece of metal in the bow, strangely, in France they didn't , champagne corks have been used for ages to do the same

 
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