[Disclaimer00]

Greetings all -

I stumbled across this great community after a few hours of unsatisfactory online hunting, and it seems like the perfect place to get a few questions answered. I am a band director in central Mississippi who just experienced a near stroke when I discovered that one of my younger saxophone players took it upon himself to try to disassemble his horn to learn how to put it back together; and when I say his, I mean the school's alto that he was using. Apparently, during this process one the screw rods was actually lost. Luckily, he didn't get very far in his endeavor and only managed to take apart the G through B keys before realizing his mistake. The sax is a Selmer Omega MG288 (Serial # 1630***) and while not the the best condition, was very playable until its dis-assembly. I am much more comfortable, and experienced, working with brasses than saxophones, and can pretty well manage simple repairs and adjustments, but I am now lost. My first question would be: what kind of damage am I looking at in the area of a repair on this horn?

Clearly, adjustments will need to be made, but considering the horn played pretty well, am I completely wrong in thinking that if I can get the rod replaced and the keys put back on, it should only be a matter of a few adjustments to get the pads all operating again? Or, is this one of those things that will require a monster amount of work, for which my small budget will be unable to handle. Along with my small budget is a small inventory, of which this saxophone represents exactly one half of my entire saxophone stock, and I can not really afford to lose it.

Every place I contact or look-up eventually recommends a complete overhaul, which obviously would be great, and probably needed. But I am wondering if it might be possible that I can find someplace to simply do the relatively small repair of replacing the rod and reassembling the displaced keys (of which everything is accounted for), and I take my time with my manuals and tools to do what I can to get it back in playing order. Asking all the sax guys out there, is this a pipe dream?

Also, any recommendations you guys can make as far as what specific work I need/should have done and where to get said works done would be appreciated. There are about 2-3 places that handle repairs within 3 hours of here and that's it. I wouldn't mind shipping it off. I can hear the sighs of repairmen when I mention my "least possible work work done to get the horn back together" idea, but I just simply can't afford a major overhaul. If I can't find some way to manage, I will just have 1 more trumpet player.

Thanks in advance

 

[bandmommy]

Don't panic.
Nearly every tech you take the horn to will replace the rod and only put it into GPC if that's all that you request be done.
They may make a few suggestions for later, but won't go any farther without your permission.

I might suggest that while this instrument is in the shop you have the young man sit with his section and 'play' a pencil.
Rather embarrassing, but works as a reminder to not disassemble a school horn.

 

[maddenma]

Did he lose a rod, or a pivot screw? You'd have thought a rod would be found pretty quickly. A pivot screw, not so much. If it's a pivot screw, it's a very cheap repair. Even a rod won't cost all that much. Sounds like the biggest cost might be shipping.

Every place you contact is going to recommend an overhaul. Fact of life, particularly when you tell them it's a school horn.

 

[Disclaimer00]

Good to hear that I might be okay, just have to find a decent place that will not overtly try to gouge me.

Did he lose a rod, or a pivot screw? You'd have thought a rod would be found pretty quickly.

It is the long rod that goes through a good bit of the left hand keys. he didn't so much "lose" it as he did remove it, and then bend it beyond recognition (way beyond).

 

[CooolJazzz]

I find it hard to believe that the missing part can't be found...unless the kid was trying to take the horn apart in a corn field. I know it's unlikely that you could get him or his parents to pay for the repairs that he caused to be necessary...but I'd be willing to bet that if you TOLD him he was going to have to pay for it if he couldn't find the missing part, said part would turn up pretty quick. He just hasn't had enough reason to look harder for it yet. Unless "the dog ate it", that part should still be somewhere close to where it was lost. If it does turn up, you could probably manage to get the keys back together yourself. If you're lucky, the pads might even seat properly. Another idea if the missing part ever turns up...if there are any mature and well-experienced sax players in your area, you might be able to ask one of them to help you reassemble the horn for a nominal fee. If that doesn't end with satisfactory results you would still have the option of sending it off to be repaired without having spent much or risking much additional damage in the attempt of at least trying to put it back together yourself.

I like bandmommy's suggestion though. Let him play lead pencil in the mean time. And by lead pencil...I mean "first chair" pencil. Better yet...make him do it while sitting in the middle of the clarinet section.

Edit:
I just saw this...

It is the long rod that goes through a good bit of the left hand keys. he didn't so much "lose" it as he did remove it, and then bend it beyond recognition (way beyond).

Which makes me say... Oh, crap...never mind trying to fix it yourself. Sorry about that.

 

[Disclaimer00]

I actually feel pretty confident I could piece it back together if I had the rod. I've completely reassembled that section of an alto before just by using another as a reference, though those two were exact models. Any chance there is a resource out there to find a replacement rod for that specific model? (love long shots)

 

[bandmommy]

There are quite a few techs here. I'm sure one of them might have what you need lying around somewhere. Your 'long shot' may actually be a 'close shot'.

As for 'playing' the pencil...
When I was in school my director used this a LOT. 'Forget' your horn, play a pencil. Horn in the shop, play a pencil.
I don't mean just sit and 'hold' the pencil and 'finger along'. You sat with the eraser on your lower lip with the utensil in playing position and you PLAYED it.
He even made us 'sing' our tuning note.....

 

[CooolJazzz]

Another good suggestion from bandmommy. To get a replacement rod as a "civilian", you'd have to go through a tech anyway. The places that sell parts like that usually only sell to technicians. Between all of the professional techs here at SOTW, chances are good that one of them could find the part and mail it to you at a much more reasonable cost than sending the horn out for repair. He's certainly not the only one, but you might try contacting Curt Altarac...(MusicMedic.com). If anyone could find that part and get it to you, I'm sure he could.

 

[griff136]

I would double check the saxophone case to make sure the rod isnt lurking somewhere in the case.

 

[slausonm]

Good to hear that I might be okay, just have to find a decent place that will not overtly try to gouge me.

It is the long rod that goes through a good bit of the left hand keys. he didn't so much "lose" it as he did remove it, and then bend it beyond recognition (way beyond).

Why would you think the repair shop you take it to would "overtly try to gouge you" Most businesses survive on repeat customers and customer satisfaction. Take the horn to a shop, ask for a repair quote and leave it there if you can afford it and agree with their findings on the repair. The guy that "overtly gouged you" is the kid that took apart the horn. He and his family should pay the bill.

Matt

 

[maddenma]

It is the long rod that goes through a good bit of the left hand keys. he didn't so much "lose" it as he did remove it, and then bend it beyond recognition (way beyond).

Yeah, that might be a problem then....

Tech just might have one handy in a drawer. At a minimum, a tech can order one quickly. Try Music Medic and see if they can send you one. You should be able to assemble it yourself in a few minutes. Not all that hard, and if you're minimally handy you can probably deduce what goes where after a try or two. You'll want to put a light coat of key oil on it before putting it in, and just be careful not to knock the corks off of things or try and bend stubborn things into place.

It does occur to me, however, that if the rod is bent, then it's possible the student also could have bent hinge tubes (the bits the rod goes through) or knocked adjustment corks off key arms. If that's the case, then you aren't going to do this yourself and a tech visit will be required.

 

[clarnibass]

It is the long rod that goes through a good bit of the left hand keys. he didn't so much "lose" it as he did remove it, and then bend it beyond recognition (way beyond).

Although "way beyond" might be true, it might not be and it could possibly still be saved. If it can be saved it shouldn't cost much at all. At worst a repairer would make a new one. Making one rod screw, even if not the the most basic one, shouldn't be what I consider expensive. The repairer really should have the instrument and keys (and if possible the old rod too) when they do it. Making it based on model as opposed to having the instrument there is a bit of a gamble, even with a known and common model.

The instrument might need (or benefit from) an overhaul but no one could be sure over the phone or email. Even then, it might be entirely possible to make play decent which a small budget allows. That's how it works here, people varying from getting optimal overhauls to extreme low budget repairs. If an area has no one to offer both (often the same person) then many people either spend more than they can really afford or left with an unplayable instrument...

 

[Chris Peryagh]

Most rod screws can be straightened out relatively easily provided they're not bent at near or beyond right angles - the rod screw is mounted securely in a drill, lathe or bench motor chuck and while spinning, a piece of wood with a hole through it is guided down the entire protruding length of the rod screw while bending it in an arc and this straightens it out.

 

[ptung]

There are some red flags, here. I've never lost a screw or pivot from any one's horn in over 10 years. Also, even if one did, most good techs can make you another screw on the spot, or in rare circumstances after ordering a part (say, if they ran out of a die in that thread sizing, or rod stock in that sizing) if necessary.

IMO, it's generally a better result to make a new screw than try to straighten a damaged one (exceptions being when the hinge tube is significantly damaged in a way that the damaged screw matches up with in a "jimmy-rigged" way, already). It's also a handy opportunity to improve on original, since on a well played horn the original fit, rod screw diameter to tube may be compromised by wear to the tube.

 

[JL]

Every place you contact is going to recommend an overhaul..

I wouldn't agree with that. Of course if the horn really needs an overhaul, a good tech will recommend it. But a good tech will also do the minimum to get the horn 'up and running' if that's what you ask for.

disclaimer00, no reputable tech is going to sigh when you ask to get the horn playing with the least amount of work possible. That's part of their job. Take the horn to a tech, explain the situation, ask them for the best possible deal to get the horn back working again, and they will quote you a price. I don't see why you can't ask the student or his parents to pay for the damage.

 

[Dr G]

+1

disclaimer00, no reputable tech is going to sigh when you ask to get the horn playing with the least amount of work possible. That's part of their job. Take the horn to a tech, explain the situation, ask them for the best possible deal to get the horn back working again, and they will quote you a price. I don't see why you can't ask the student or his parents to pay for the damage.

Sheer wisdom - all of it. If your loan agreement for the horn does not include repair expenses for willful damage to a school instrument, it should.

 

[Disclaimer00]

I appreciate all of your insights. MusicMedic.com is sending me just the upperstack rod for me to try to replace myself. We'll see how it comes out. Thanks again!

 

[CooolJazzz]

It's been a month now. Just wondering how the repair worked out.