[SaxTMan]

Hi,

I'm trying to develop the approach of improvising solo - without any time and harmonic reference. For practice proposes i might start by using a time reference like a metronome, but the goal is improvise totally solo.

I want to know from top to bottom what exercises do you recommend and how you usually approach this stuff.

I find it's time to turn off the playalongs of a while.

Thanks :bluewink:

note. Maybe the term 'improvising solo' is not correct and may be why i can't find much information about how to approach it, so feel free to correct me.

 

[ranma503]

I do this all the time. Ever sing in the shower?

Basically there are two ways that come to mind: One is, learn a tune so well, that you can play over its changes without hearing them. Work on your time!

The other way is just to play free jazz. There's a lot of ways to do that, but my way is, I try to create melodies, and I try to weave them together. You can either do that in time or out of time.

 

[Randy Hunter]

My method of preference is learning the tune and changes without a play-along. Begin by playing the roots in time- follow this by learning the arpeggio for each chord, then practice weaving through the changes in time using arpeggio tones- work to connect the changes with guide tone or closest chord tone principles. At this stage of the practice session you are working primarily on establishing the harmonic frame of the tune. As you reach a high level of accuracy with the timing of the chord movements and chord tones, you can begin working to incorporate any harmonic concepts you are currently studying. Finally, begin practicing phrasing as if you are playing with a fantasy rhythm section. Your goals are to build solid time, harmony, and phrasing techniques.

Randy
www.randyhunterjazz.com
Online Jazz Lessons and Books
New Lesson: Shaping the Blues Scale
Lessons page: www.beginningsax.com/Jazz Improv Lessons.htm
Podcast Samples: http://www.youtube.com/user/saxtrax
Rhythm Changes Demo:

 

[SaxTMan]

I do this all the time. Ever sing in the shower?

Basically there are two ways that come to mind: One is, learn a tune so well, that you can play over its changes without hearing them. Work on your time!

The other way is just to play free jazz. There's a lot of ways to do that, but my way is, I try to create melodies, and I try to weave them together. You can either do that in time or out of time.

The goal is to play in time and above the changes (always there)... the goal being something like this

 

[SaxTMan]

My method of preference is learning the tune and changes without a play-along. Begin by playing the roots in time- follow this by learning the arpeggio for each chord, then practice weaving through the changes in time using arpeggio tones- work to connect the changes with guide tone or closest chord tone principles. At this stage of the practice session you are working primarily on establishing the harmonic frame of the tune. As you reach a high level of accuracy with the timing of the chord movements and chord tones, you can begin working to incorporate any harmonic concepts you are currently studying. Finally, begin practicing phrasing as if you are playing with a fantasy rhythm section. Your goals are to build solid time, harmony, and phrasing techniques.

Randy
www.randyhunterjazz.com
Online Jazz Lessons and Books
New Lesson: Shaping the Blues Scale
Lessons page: www.beginningsax.com/Jazz Improv Lessons.htm
Podcast Samples: http://www.youtube.com/user/saxtrax
Rhythm Changes Demo:

thank you...that is being also my approach... whit time starting adding more information to the exercises to help improvisation without feeling constricted

more dynamics and accentuation

 

[Randy Hunter]

One of the best things about this approach is that you can explore the harmony to greater limits. Play-alongs often limit harmonic exploration and tend to basically become harmonic metronomes that keep us locked into the changes. The real freedom comes with the independence you gain with the solid harmonic and timing concepts you build over time.

Randy
www.randyhunterjazz.com
Online Jazz Lessons and Books
New Lesson: Shaping the Blues Scale
Lessons page: www.beginningsax.com/Jazz Improv Lessons.htm
Podcast Samples: http://www.youtube.com/user/saxtrax
Rhythm Changes Demo:

 

[SveinJo]

Or you could do the unconventional - study how Bach improvised multipart counterpoint (fugas). Given a melodic phrase, he would create a counterpoint by one or more of the following tricks

• Playing the phrase "upside down" (going up a tone whenever the original went down a tone etc.)
• Playing the phrase backwards
• Playing the phrase in half time
• Playing the phrase in double time

This is not an exhaustive list, however. Feel free to invent your own tricks.

 

[SaxTMan]

Or you could do the unconventional - study how Bach improvised multipart counterpoint (fugas). Given a melodic phrase, he would create a counterpoint by one or more of the following tricks

• Playing the phrase "upside down" (going up a tone whenever the original went down a tone etc.)
• Playing the phrase backwards
• Playing the phrase in half time
• Playing the phrase in double time

This is not an exhaustive list, however. Feel free to invent your own tricks.

good stuff, Parker explored that kind of stuff a lot too... thanks

 

[SaxTMan]

One of the best things about this approach is that you can explore the harmony to greater limits. Play-alongs often limit harmonic exploration and tend to basically become harmonic metronomes that keep us locked into the changes. The real freedom comes with the independence you gain with the solid harmonic and timing concepts you build over time.

Randy
www.randyhunterjazz.com
Online Jazz Lessons and Books
New Lesson: Shaping the Blues Scale
Lessons page: www.beginningsax.com/Jazz Improv Lessons.htm
Podcast Samples: http://www.youtube.com/user/saxtrax
Rhythm Changes Demo:

can you give examples of harmonic exploration and how to approach in this kind of situation?

 

[Randy Hunter]

can you give examples of harmonic exploration and how to approach in this kind of situation?

Sorry to be slow about getting back to this one- it's been a busy week. One method of harmonic exploration is simply working with alterations on dominant chords. Play-alongs, especially if the piano player is very busy, can make alterations on some situations sound iffy, especially if you sustain an altered tone that's not altered in the play-along. You can also experiment with the quality of chords, or the addition of ii-V's. One example is that, say you are playing a blues, you may want to try variations in the 6th bar on the IV7 chord by raising it a half-step and playing it as a diminished chord, or you might want to try it as a minor iv chord; either way, you can play several choruses one way, then another, etc. Play-alongs force you to follow the path, both harmonically and style-wise, that the rhythm section choses. The possibilities for exploration continue further with chord components such as tritone subs- now again, this gets into dealing with alterations that a play-along rhythm section may or may not support, thus the advantage of practicing solo.

Randy
www.randyhunterjazz.com
Online Jazz Lessons and Books
New Lesson: Shaping the Blues Scale
Lessons page: www.beginningsax.com/Jazz Improv Lessons.htm
Podcast Samples: http://www.youtube.com/user/saxtrax
Rhythm Changes Demo:

 

[Agent27]

My method of preference is learning the tune and changes without a play-along. Begin by playing the roots in time- follow this by learning the arpeggio for each chord, then practice weaving through the changes in time using arpeggio tones- work to connect the changes with guide tone or closest chord tone principles. At this stage of the practice session you are working primarily on establishing the harmonic frame of the tune. As you reach a high level of accuracy with the timing of the chord movements and chord tones, you can begin working to incorporate any harmonic concepts you are currently studying. Finally, begin practicing phrasing as if you are playing with a fantasy rhythm section. Your goals are to build solid time, harmony, and phrasing techniques.

This is pretty much what Bob Reynolds preaches as well. Play through the tune playing the roots, then roots and 3rds, then the triad, then the 7th chords. I practice that way and then move on to taking chord tone solos, often following the half step resolutions. When I finally allow myself to use other scale tones and approach notes, it sounds so much better than it would have if I had just skipped all of the above and just tried to improvise on the tune. Practicing with self imposed limitations is a great way to practice.

I'm actually doing a wedding tomorrow all by myself. Strange, but that's what they wanted. So I'll be playing for about an hour a half with no accompaniment at all. I'm not worried because I've worked on this stuff using the above method and know I can take a convincing solo while clearly implying the changes with out the need for other players or play alongs.

 

[SaxTMan]

I'm actually doing a wedding tomorrow all by myself. Strange, but that's what they wanted. So I'll be playing for about an hour a half with no accompaniment at all. I'm not worried because I've worked on this stuff using the above method and know I can take a convincing solo while clearly implying the changes with out the need for other players or play alongs.

I've done one myself 15 days ago, and i was a little rusty, that's why i'm exploring more this stuff. I think it is giving me many other benefits. And yes it's odd.