[SaxKidd]

Four is one of my favorite tunes, so I decided I want to learn how to play it. I've got the head down solid now and I'm working on outlining the chords, but I was just wondering what are some good scales I could use over the changes, and what's the best way to navigate them in this song? It's more complex than it looks! But maybe that's just because I'm pretty new to jazz and jazz improvisation.

Any advice for learning how to improv over this would be greatly appreciated!

 

[814jazzer]

I'd reduce it to tonal centers. I don't know what horn you're playing so, I'll talk in "Alto key".

MEASURE MAJOR KEY
1-2 C
3-4 F
5-6 F
7-8 Eb
9-16 C-ish, with some chromatic twists you might want to try to touch on.

Try these major scales / major tonal centers in these measures. Let me know if it helps.

Best of luck!
~ Rick

 

[SaxKidd]

Okay thanks! I do play Alto by the way

 

[HeavyWeather77]

Rick's advice is good! It's great to think about the chords going by as slowly as possible so you can think in broader terms when you improvise. Don't forget to listen constantly to how your note choices relate to the bass and the other notes around you. Developing your ears will help you play better than anything else!

As you get familiar with playing through the tune, you can explore other ways to think about it, too. Taking Rick's method, for example, you could also approach it this way:

measures 1-2: C major
3-4: C minor
5-6: C major (over D minor)
7-8: F minor
9-16: (here's where it gets beboppy, lots of 3-6-2-5 progressions, those will come with time!)

For me, I find that mixing my ideas between major and minor keeps the development interesting and leads to good things. Minor melodies can be very colorful and powerful, especially when resolving to major melodies. Have fun!

 

[docformat]

Re-opening an old thread -

just curious what do people play on bars 3-4

the Rb says Bb-7 - Eb7 but I know a lot of people play Eb-7 - Ab7

the latter changes sound better to me so is this just one of those RB howlers?

 

[SimonJazzSax]

Improvising Over the Changes in "Four" (Miles Davis) Question

Re-opening an old thread -

just curious what do people play on bars 3-4

the Rb says Bb-7 - Eb7 but I know a lot of people play Eb-7 - Ab7

the latter changes sound better to me so is this just one of those RB howlers?

I'll have to listen back again, but I remember Miles group playing, | Eb-7 | Ab7 | F-9,11 | % | Ab-7 | Db7 | in bars 3-8.

Some guys play that F-9,11 as an Abmaj7, but I remember the bass player playing F over it pretty strongly during the head. And the piano player comping the Abmaj 7,9 chord / upper extensions (hence the Fmin 9,11).

I'll go back and listen again though. Hope that helps.

 

[Ken]

Here is a version from the quintet I found on youtube.

It sounds to me like they are playing the RB version - BbMI7/Eb7. I've also heard Chet Baker playing it this way too and made it sound good. Maybe that is the most common way.

I've also preferred playing it the other way and thought that was an RB mistake.

 

[SimonJazzSax]

Improvising Over the Changes in "Four" (Miles Davis) Question

Here is a version from the quintet I found on youtube.

It sounds to me like they are playing the RB version - BbMI7/Eb7. I've also heard Chet Baker playing it this way too and made it sound good. Maybe that is the most common way.

I've also preferred playing it the other way and thought that was an RB mistake.

I'm not at a piano, but I am hearing the 3rd measure as Eb-7 | Ab7 | F-9 etc...

 

[Ken]

Ok. I would need a piano as well to be sure.

Edit: Yes you're right.

 

[docformat]

Yeah I agree that Miles seems to play Eb-7 Ab 7 F-

This is how it is in the colorado book as well so I think I am gonna go with that

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[SimonJazzSax]

Yeah I agree that Miles seems to play Eb-7 Ab 7 F-

This is how it is in the colorado book as well so I think I am gonna go with that

Thanks for your help guys!

Ya. I checked it. That is exactly what they are doing. Also listen to Trane's opening solo. Classic minor sequences all the way through the first 8 bars. Cool stuff.

 

[Grumps]

Put away the theory for a moment and listen to the tune. Scat sing along with it; imagining and improvising lines as you do. Sing it in your head as you go through the day, coming up with more and more. When you're ready, take your best imagined riffs and play them on your horn.

 

[SimonJazzSax]

Improvising Over the Changes in "Four" (Miles Davis) Question

Put away the theory for a moment and listen to the tune. Scat sing along with it; imagining and improvising lines as you do. Sing it in your head as you go through the day, coming up with more and more. When you're ready, take your best imagined riffs and play them on your horn.

Always a good thing to work on, but I bet those guys doing the recording knew the right changes. Nothing wrong with knowing the right changes and then doing what you said, as knowing the changes really has nothing to do with theory. It's the analyzation and endless permutations of what is possible over changes that guys can obsess over to much.

 

[Grumps]

Re: Improvising Over the Changes in "Four" (Miles Davis) Question

Always a good thing to work on, but I bet those guys doing the recording knew the right changes.

Well, I only said to put away the theory for a moment. You certainly can't abandon the changes. But the OP is asking what scales to play over them, and I'm only trying to get him to consider what melody to play over them instead; one of his own making.

 

[SimonJazzSax]

Re: Improvising Over the Changes in "Four" (Miles Davis) Question

Well, I only said to put away the theory for a moment. You certainly can't abandon the changes. But the OP is asking what scales to play over them, and I'm only trying to get him to consider what melody to play over them instead; one of his own making.

Ahhh. I get it. Makes sense. I was only responding to post #5, as he re-opened this older thread. I forgot that the OP was a different question. I guess this is why we should stick to one topic per thread

 

[Dave Pollack]

Just so you know, Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson wrote the tune, not Miles.

 

[SimonJazzSax]

Just so you know, Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson wrote the tune, not Miles.

That seems to be the case with a lot of tunes Miles get's credit for. I wonder if he actually tried to take credit for them or if people just gave him credit as they were on his albums?

*** Side note - I believe Vinson wrote Tune up also.

 

[thejazzvp]

Four is one of my favorite tunes, so I decided I want to learn how to play it. I've got the head down solid now and I'm working on outlining the chords, but I was just wondering what are some good scales I could use over the changes, and what's the best way to navigate them in this song? It's more complex than it looks! But maybe that's just because I'm pretty new to jazz and jazz improvisation.

Any advice for learning how to improv over this would be greatly appreciated!

I don't think you should think in terms of scale here but chord tones considering how often the chords change key, and the fact that those key changes are deceptive (in the general sense of the word).

 

[Dave Pollack]

That seems to be the case with a lot of tunes Miles get's credit for. I wonder if he actually tried to take credit for them or if people just gave him credit as they were on his albums?

*** Side note - I believe Vinson wrote Tune up also.

That's a good question, I'm not 100% sure. But yes, he did write Tune Up as well!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[whaler]