[Tobias87]

Hey there.
I've been playing tenor for some years now. I play scales, appregios, tone excersiceses and so forth on a regular basis - at least an hour, almost everyday.
I played in an amateur jazz band with some friends for quiete some time. We didn't pay much attention to the degree of dificulty on the tunes we picked for our reperoire, nor did we pay much attention to the chords when improvising. Normally i would just stick to one pentatonescale for a whole solo, and go with the flow - Needless to, most of my soloes didn't have the melodic diversity to please the listerne (i.e. they pretty much sucks), especially when playing difficult tunes such as Black Narcissus, Recordame, Sugar, Lonely swan and so forth. Now i quit my band due to geographical cirsumstandes. And a couple of pro's have convinced me to sit in at some amaterur jam-sessions. And this bring me to the headline for this topic. Im looking for recomendaions for nice jazz tunes, which is simple, famous and nice to play and listening to. I would love to learn how to approach this matter - improvising over changes. And i am eager to invest a lot of time and energy in it. I have a feeling that i should pick some tunes, play appregioes over the changes, and learn to be aware of which scales to play in the soloes.
Yes, i now i should get a good teacher to help me with this. The problem is that the really good teachers in Denmark are also pretty damn expensive (50-100 dollars per session), and since i'm studying i do not have the funds for such a luxury. So i hope that you dear members of SOTW once again will help me.
Best Regards
Tobias Bjerring

 

[Norbert]

Hi Tobias,

A good resource would be this site :

http://jazzadvice.com/

It has a lot of useful information to work on improvising over the changes. I'm struggling with the same and have about the same background as you have. I found this site very helpful.
Another way to start improvising is to start with playing over a blues. Try to follow the changes using the minor and major blues scale. Ones you have mastered that the next step is to work on simple jazz standards.

 

[mcudahy]

You might get one of the "The Real Easy Books." The title is a play on "The Real Book(s)," but with easy-ish tunes (familiar jazz standards). For each tune, there are scales, bass lines, suggestions for improvising, etc.--I don't remember exactly.

 

[kavala]

Get a guitar or keyboard and learn to play the changes on those
instruments.
It helps to understand the harmonic structure of a tune.
learn the changes so that you own them and can play them in any key.
There are many great standards in the Real Book.
Knock a few of those over and you are on your way.

 

[JayeLID]

While I understand the intent of that suggestion....I really don't think diverting your attention to learning to play chord changes on a rhythm/chordal instrument is really going to get you to the Point B you want.

I took a look at the Real Easy Book samples online...those are pretty cool. I think they'd be appropriate.

You could also start off with tunes such as ones with blues sorta changes...move from simple 12-bar to things like Blue Bossa, Sugar, Song For My Father, etc. Some modal sorta tunes are good as well....Little Sunflower, Equinox, etc....

 

[kavala]

The problem with getting a teacher is that you need to choose which type of teacher you require.
Do you want a teacher to show you how to play saxophone, or one to show you
how to improvise on jazz type tunes ?

The latter comes with experience.
Sitting in with good players is very useful, as are play-alongs.

You say you are eager to invest a lot of time or energy.
I don't believe that learning guitar or piano will be a distraction.
I don't mean for you to attempt to learn one of these overnight.
In the long journey of learning this music, a little time invested
in learning a chording instrument, is not a great sacrifice, while
the benefits can be substantial.

But do this in conjunction with all the other things you are working on
with your horn.

It takes time.

 

[Rackety Sax]

I would like to recommend a book called Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony by Bert Ligon. He describes three simple melodic "outlines" for negotiating the ii-V-I (mainly) progression and then describes in great detail how these seemingly innocuous kernels can be turned into real music. It took me a long while to get with the program, but I've finally begun to realize how these simple starting points can provide the basis for a virtually endless amount of variety. The book analyzes an enormous number of examples from master improvisers. About the only shortcoming I've noticed is that you are on your own trying to figure out where the example solo phrases came from (he tells you, for example, that Clifford Brown played it but not on what recording). I don't know if Ligon provides this information if you request it - I should try contacting him sometime.

There are lots more reviews on Amazon to give you a sense of the book.

Ligon also has a technique book and a two-volume theory book which are also excellent, but I'd suggest starting with Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony.

 

[JL]

"Improvising over changes - What is a good place to start?"

I'd say start with the blues. Not just the 'blues scale' but the 12-bar 'I-IV-V blues' playing through the changes. Then learn some of the other common blues changes, using ii-V (in place of V-IV), iii-VI-ii-V turnarounds, minor blues, etc. The blues is the foundation for jazz, funk, R&B, R&R, everything...

 

[hartt97]

I might suggest picking up the Miles Davis record "Kind of Blue" and start trying to pick out the melodies and Miles' solos by ear. Good ear training and a good introduction to transcription.

 

[Tobias87]

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions. During the last year i've read a ton of posts and articles, including a lot from this forum. And it seems the most obvious answer to my question is starting with the blues. I do not know why i haven't thought about that before, when it seems like most people agree that it's a great place to start. So i have decided to invest in the aebersold play-along 'nothing but the blues'. In addition some of my musician friends seems eager to start up a blues band, so the timing couldn't be much better. Getting the pentatonic and blues scales in my fingers, while getting the progressions under my skin will hopefully be a big step for me. Guess it's time to play some blues!
Regarding learning a chord instrument: I've wanted to invest in a keyboard for a long time. I have a feeling that it will improve my sense of chord progression as well as my intonation. I've been thinking about buying a cheap 2-3 octave keyboard - any thoughts on that?
JayePDX: The real easy book seems great as well. There's a lot of great tunes on the repetoire and showing which scales to play over the chords seems like a great resource. I will keep that in mind, next time i'll learn a new tune, and try if i can look it up in the book somewhere.
Rackety Sax: That book certaintly had some great reviews. Maybe i will look in to it somtime.
Hartt97: I've heard that albums many many times, and your approach actually seems like a pretty good idea.

At last, thanks a lot everyone. As always your imputs are very valuable, and i have to say it's a true blessing to being able to use this resource.Oh, and i almost forgor: Happy new year everyone!

 

[dexdex]

Regarding a keyboard, whatever you buy will help you. A small and cheap one will be easy to keep handy. I recently bought a digital stage piano for the same purpose (you can find them pretty cheap on the used market). It is less handy, but it can be used for rehearsing with a kb player.

 

[Jeff Foster]

Listen, listen listen. Obviously, it's important to understand the theory, practice the scales and all that but a lot of improvisation is intuitive. All the technique in the world won't help you if you don't have any ideas in your head. You need to listen to as much jazz as you possibly can. Be a sponge and soak up as much knowledge as you can from listening to other players.

 

[sax-ony]

Aebersold vol. 3: The II-V7-I Progression.

To begin with I would spend a lot of time on the first section: ii/V7/I All Major Keys. This can be made more fruitful by writing your own licks to play over the changes on the backing track, or you can use licks or parts of licks from Steve Neff's 'The Ultimate II-V-I Primer'. I've started doing this - playing some of Steve's suggested licks in all keys over the Aebersold backing track - and it really gets you into the chord progression.

 

[hgiles]

You can also get BIAB and have it play solos for you. Then you instantly have transcriptions.

 

[piwikiwi]

Listen, listen listen. Obviously, it's important to understand the theory, practice the scales and all that but a lot of improvisation is intuitive. All the technique in the world won't help you if you don't have any ideas in your head. You need to listen to as much jazz as you possibly can. Be a sponge and soak up as much knowledge as you can from listening to other players.

Amen, you can practice all you want but you need to have a good ear to understand it. Learn to hear voiceleading, II-V/III-VI progressions.

 

[JL]

So i have decided to invest in the aebersold play-along 'nothing but the blues'.

That's fine, but don't limit it to that. Now, this is just my opinion, but the aebersold 'blues' recordings are pretty sterile. They will be fine for working through the changes as an exercise, but they are a long way from the real blues. Get some recordings by B.B. King, Albert King, Buddy Guy, Albert Collins, King Curtis, and other real blues artists, LISTEN closely to the style, phrasing, and the changes, and then play along.

Unfortunately, like a lot of jazz, the blues is pretty far underground these days. I'm very thankful I grew up in a era when the blues were resurgent enough that I was exposed to the real deal. You have to get it in your bones, so to speak.

 

[Tobias87]

That's fine, but don't limit it to that. Now, this is just my opinion, but the aebersold 'blues' recordings are pretty sterile. They will be fine for working through the changes as an exercise, but they are a long way from the real blues. Get some recordings by B.B. King, Albert King, Buddy Guy, Albert Collins, King Curtis, and other real blues artists, LISTEN closely to the style, phrasing, and the changes, and then play along.

I'll second that. I listen to a lot of different artists, and one of my all time favorites are Stanley Turrentine. I'm always amazed at how he makes up such interesting stories from so small a range of notes. Like his solo on Kenny Burrels Chitlines Con Carne where i pretty much plays the d pentatonic during the whole solo. I'm such an admirerer of his tone and phrasing. Like his style on the album Sugar. It's unbelieveble how much dynamic he can get into only on half note.
Anyways, we do have a blues bar in copenhagen, but to tell you the truth, most perfamonaces i've attented weren't really that serious. But i do at times get the opportunity to see danish artists such as Jacop Fischer and Hugo Rasmussen, and they certaintly know what they are doing. I've gotten the picture that blues is all about being serious, considerate and personal in every note you play. Playing fewer but better notes. Flirting with the music. Spilling your guts out. And then just keeping it groovy, sexy 'n swingin!

 

[Tobias87]

Unfortunately, like a lot of jazz, the blues is pretty far underground these days. I'm very thankful I grew up in a era when the blues were resurgent enough that I was exposed to the real deal. You have to get it in your bones, so to speak.

On that note, Alain Apaloo is playing tonight, it's a real petty that i can't attend, cause i heard he got some bones!

 

[BrianL3661]

I'm a beginner myself and not quite proficient at improvisation, but I started with this:
http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html
I have some classical background in theory (only a little), and it was a good read for me. Some parts of it I still don't get (I hope I do later!) but some parts of it that I did understand helped me get the basics in playing changes and following chord progressions.

 

[kavala]

Regarding learning a chord instrument: I've wanted to invest in a keyboard for a long time. I have a feeling that it will improve my sense of chord progression as well as my intonation. I've been thinking about buying a cheap 2-3 octave keyboard - any thoughts on that?

Keyboards with a proper weighted action similar to an acoustic
piano are becoming less expensive now. Most of these have
sampled sounds, so the tone is quite realistic.
Casio have models for about $500.

However my reason for suggesting guitar as an alternative, is
that while it is admirable to learn piano, if you have never
played keyboards, it is quite difficult for a noob to get
around it and play some decent chords with any sort of skill.

The guitar, while never replacing piano, is much easier. Within
six months, depending on your diligence, you should be knocking
out more than just power triads.