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EARLY BABBIT WIDE TIP (Short Body)
It is stamped on the side. In the bigger font size. Denim look on the facing...and beautifully under cut side walls. My one has not got too much baffle ..ie no horse shoe shape.

Most Florida Links I have played have more baffle

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Hi.
Question... Is it possible that the Early Babbit Wide Tip ( short body's ) were made in the late 70's ?
 

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Thanks for the correction on the font sizes, I will also check them against my own pieces and correct the next version of the chart :).

Are you sure about the addresses for Florida and Early Babbitt's?

I own an original 10* EB (1974 model, with the small bore size) and the box has address 121 SO West 5th Street:
https://plus.google.com/photos/1086...5944959808241562354&oid=108637650008771977212

Found on CE Winds site a Florida no USA (50's model) with a picture of a box with address 21 SO West 5th Street:
http://www.cewinds.com/vintage-flor...-master-stm-5-mouthpiece-tenor-saxophone.html
http://www.cewinds.com/media/catalo...8eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/j/a/ja931box.jpg
Yes, I am sure about the addresses on the boxes. The boxes may have been switched, but as the Florida mouthpiece in the 121 box is still in original plastic bag and with original piece of cork to keep the ligature in place, it is unlikely that it has ever been out of the box. (And it is an alto in tip opening 10)
 

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That would tally with what is written about STM's Here From Matt Stohrers site.
But perhaps all old boxes will have been used first rather than thrown away so transition period may be possible?
 

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That would tally with what is written about STM's Here From Matt Stohrers site.
But perhaps all old boxes will have been used first rather than thrown away so transition period may be possible?
True. But it fits with the fact that the only small font mouthpiece among these is in a box from 121 So. W.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Thanks for the correction on the font sizes, I will also check them against my own pieces and correct the next version of the chart :).

Are you sure about the addresses for Florida and Early Babbitt's?

I own an original 10* EB (1974 model, with the small bore size) and the box has address 121 SO West 5th Street:
https://plus.google.com/photos/1086...5944959808241562354&oid=108637650008771977212

Found on CE Winds site a Florida no USA (50's model) with a picture of a box with address 21 SO West 5th Street:
http://www.cewinds.com/vintage-flor...-master-stm-5-mouthpiece-tenor-saxophone.html
http://www.cewinds.com/media/catalo...8eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/j/a/ja931box.jpg
Yes, I am sure about the addresses on the boxes. The boxes may have been switched, but as the Florida mouthpiece in the 121 box is still in original plastic bag and with original piece of cork to keep the ligature in place, it is unlikely that it has ever been out of the box. (And it is an alto in tip opening 10)
True. But it fits with the fact that the only small font mouthpiece among these is in a box from 121 So. W.....
I just checked the box of a metal Early Babbitt 8* (the 1974 model) that I bought new in a Dutch shop in the mid 80's. It has the 21 SO West 5th Street address, which fits with your information. But I also have an EB 10* coming from Italy (see above link) in a 121 SO box, so it looks like some boxes have changed and makes it for now difficult to come to a good conclusion :mrgreen:!
 

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Thanks ManEast :).

That would make the sequence of metal pieces in the chart correct, with the wide tip EB's after the normal EB's and still having the tip stamp on the side, followed by transitional (long bodies) EB's having the tip stamp on the shank, followed by the current STM's.
I recently got a wide tip (21 to 22mm) with the tip stamp on the shank and it's not a long body. Should this be placed between the wide tip EB (with stamp on the side) and the transitional long body on the chart or does it go somewhere else?
 

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Thank you mrpeebee, for an excellent chart. I´m still a bit confused about the Florida/early Babbitt transition, though. I´m not a Link player but I have in my possession an STM 5* which, as far as I understand, fits the description of an early Babbitt (large font, narrow tip). However, it still has its original box which is marked 21 SO. WEST 5th STREET, POMPANO BEACH, FLORIDA. I suppose this could fit with the notion of a transitional model using old boxes (as mentioned above), but some seem to describe them as "late Florida large font STM". Is there any way of telling the difference? Does it make any difference in perceived value?

Best regards

Saxray
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
I suppose this could fit with the notion of a transitional model using old boxes (as mentioned above), but some seem to describe them as "late Florida large font STM". Is there any way of telling the difference? Does it make any difference in perceived value?

Best regards

Saxray
Saxray, I think both descriptions point to the same model (the first pieces faced by Babbitt in 1973/4 from old Florida USA blanks).

See below post of Theo Wanne about how you can identify them (small bore, the later EB's from after 1974 made from real Babbitt blanks have a slightly larger bore size):

Plating:
• Vintage New York and 'Double Band Super Tone Master' Otto Links had a Silver substrate under the gold.
• 'No USA' and 'USA' Metal Super Tone Master Otto Links prior to 1973 had nickel plating under the gold. A nickel substrate along with the bore size of 0.662" are the true 'marks' of a Florida Otto Link.
• In 1973 all Otto Links where plated at Anderson Silver Plating (right next door to JJ Babbitt in Elkhart Indiana) who has never, and still does not, use nickel. Hence, all post 1973 Otto Links have silver plating as a substrate underneath the gold plating.

The transitional Otto Links mentioned above have the 0.662" bore diameter, but the denim table and silver substrate under gold. These are the only exception to the plating rule above that I have seen.
Source: https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...ginal-facing&p=2580547&viewfull=1#post2580547
 

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Saxray, I think both descriptions point to the same model (the first pieces faced by Babbitt in 1973/4 from old Florida USA blanks).

See below post of Theo Wanne about how you can identify them (small bore, the later EB's from after 1974 made from real Babbitt blanks have a slightly larger bore size):

Source: https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...ginal-facing&p=2580547&viewfull=1#post2580547
Thank you, that clears things up a bit! Are the late Florida early Babbitts considered to be any different from the all Elkhart produced ones in terms of quality, playability etc?
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Thank you, that clears things up a bit! Are the late Florida early Babbitts considered to be any different from the all Elkhart produced ones in terms of quality, playability etc?
Main difference is that the first EB's are made of Florida blanks and have the smaller bore. I own 5 metal EB's, 2 early ones (Florida blanks) and 3 later ones, but all are a bit different in sound. My favourite is an early EB 8*, but the others are good too. Overall they are closer to each other compared to an 80's STM, who where made from much different blanks and don't play as well as the EB's.
 

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Thanks again. My 5* EB STM came with a saxophone I purchased second hand from the family of a deceased player, and I didn´t know what kind of mouthpiece it was until I started doing some on-line research. I used a modern Otto Link STM for a short while and wasn´t impressed so when I got this one, I thought I would just sell it. Now it sounds like it might be a better idea to keep it and play it!
 

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Main difference is that the first EB's are made of Florida blanks and have the smaller bore. I own 5 metal EB's, 2 early ones (Florida blanks) and 3 later ones, but all are a bit difference in sound. My favourite is an early EB 8*, but the others are good too. Overall they are closer to each other compared to an 80's STM, who where made from much different blanks and don't play as well as the EB's.
Hard to say.
The blank used for the EB STM is very different from the blank used for the Florida USA.

For modern STM, JJ Babbitt used (and still used) another different blank (from the EB and the Florida USA).

There are a couple of blanks used for the Florida USA STMs.
And there are three different blanks used for the Florida No USA STMs

STM EB vs. STM Florida USA: https://www.facebook.com/509654555758777/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1229574073766818
 

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Thanks ManEast :).

That would make the sequence of metal pieces in the chart correct, with the wide tip EB's after the normal EB's and still having the tip stamp on the side, followed by transitional (long bodies) EB's having the tip stamp on the shank, followed by the current STM's.
I am curious as t Tableware Drinkware Liquid Test tube Fluid
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o the differences in these two ottos one is obviously wider and taller than the other and both have the facing (5) stamped on the shank
 
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