Sax on the Web Forum banner
1 - 20 of 78 Posts

·
Administrator Emeritus
Joined
·
18,485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Dear all,

I recently made some additions to the original "Otto Link Identification" chart in >this< thread.

Here is the latest version:
Otto Link - 00 Identification Flowchart - PB extension 3.jpg


One member commented on the Transitional (or Long body) models as having no tip stamp on the side but on the shank (like modern STM's). That's the kind of information I'm looking for to further improve the chart.

I'm looking for some answers on:
1. Transitional pieces: where is the tip size stamp located (side or shank)?
2. Early Babbitt wide tip: where is the tip size stamp located (side or shank)?
3. Any other remarks or correction on the chart?

I know from my own collection and other information on internet that some info is missing. For instance:
A. Two types of Tone Masters exist (model I and II, see Nicolas Trefeil)
B. Earliest Florida no USA models had serial numbers on the side (opposite of tip size stamp, like STM Double Rings)
C. Very early Florida no USA models (without serial numbers) had shorter shanks then later models
D. The first Early Babbitt pieces (1974) had narrow shank bore sizes (like Florida pieces), the later EB's (1975-1980) had wider shank bore sizes (like current STM).

So please review the above posted latest version and let me know if you have any answers or additions.

After some time I will try to make a new fully improved version.

Thanks :).
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,118 Posts
I have noticed a significant variation not on the chart. Around the late 90's, the STMs were made a bit narrower than standard tenor reeds. The reeds overhang the sides a little. The interior side walls also pinch in a little about 3/16" from the tip rail corners. Many (most?) of the Millennium Links were made this way too. The two halves were braised too close together.

I have fixed a lot of these over the years by opening the tip 1.5 sizes. This makes the rails wider to match the reed width. Then they can be closed down by cutting the table as needed. The rails can then be thinned from the inside to make a nice a link out of them. It is a lot of work.

Here is a photo spread I did showing the pinch point location and the work I did to one of these back in 2004.

http://www.mojomouthpiecework.com/D...lery/SlideShowPopup.aspx?PortalID=0&ItemID=59
 

·
Administrator Emeritus
Joined
·
18,485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks. Presuming this applies to tenors I've got an early Babbitt 7..
Most pictures in the chart are from tenor pieces, so I'm sure your conclusion is fine (congrats with the EB 7, those are great pieces!) :).

A big part of the logic will also apply to SAB Link's, but not all. Especially the shank sizes of SAB mpc's differ quite a lot from the tenor shanks, so that information from the chart can be a bit tricky to apply to SAB mpc's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
That is a excellent improvement, thank you very much ... It has answered questions I have had for years.

I play on what is called on the chart, early Babbit wide tip (body) ....it must quite a rare piece as it can't have been in production that long ??
 

·
Forum Contributor 2012-2017
Joined
·
187 Posts
Thanks, I really appreciate this.
And thanks for correcting some of my previous faux pas on Otto Link labeling/ identification
 

·
Administrator Emeritus
Joined
·
18,485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I play on what is called on the chart, early Babbit wide tip (body) ....it must quite a rare piece as it can't have been in production that long ??
I own a lot of Link's, but I've never seen a wide tip EB (those are indeed quite rare). Could you answer below question?

2. Early Babbitt wide tip: where is the tip size stamp located (side or shank)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
I own a lot of Link's, but I've never seen a wide tip EB (those are indeed quite rare). Could you answer below question?

2. Early Babbitt wide tip: where is the tip size stamp located (side or shank)?
It is stamped on the side. In the bigger font size. Denim look on the facing...and beautifully under cut side walls. My one has not got too much baffle ..ie no horse shoe shape.

Most Florida Links I have played have more baffle

image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
 

·
Administrator Emeritus
Joined
·
18,485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It is stamped on the side. In the bigger font size. Denim look on the facing...and beautifully under cut side walls. My one has not got too much baffle ..ie no horse shoe shape.

Most Florida Links I have played have more baffle.
Thanks ManEast :).

That would make the sequence of metal pieces in the chart correct, with the wide tip EB's after the normal EB's and still having the tip stamp on the side, followed by transitional (long bodies) EB's having the tip stamp on the shank, followed by the current STM's.
 

·
Administrator Emeritus
Joined
·
18,485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Now what we need is someone to do this work for the HR Otto Links........That's where most of the confusion seems to be nowadays............
Steve, HR Links are a completely different story as you know! I don't have enough affinity with them to make a good comparison chart like for the metals and it's also more difficult to construct one for HR pieces without having proper examples and pictures.

But some available sites and threads here on SOTW already have some usefull information on HR Links (but without a chart!):

- Theo Wanne museum (scroll down for HR pieces): https://theowanne.com/knowledge/mouthpiece-museum/otto-link-mouthpieces/
- Nicolas Tefeil (scroll down for HR pieces): http://www.nicolastrefeil.com/otto-link-serial-numbers-3
- Saxophone.org Otto Link pictures: http://www.saxophone.org/museum/mouthpieces/manufacturer/65
- Saxophone.org Otto Link publications: http://www.saxophone.org/museum/publications/manufacturer/65/museumType/2
- Several SOTW threads on HR Links:
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?160392-EB-Link-model-questions
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...-and-not-so-small-font-U-S-A-Different-blanks
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...quish-an-Early-Babbit-from-a-modern-Tone-Edge
 

·
Administrator Emeritus
Joined
·
18,485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
saxophone.org states Link moved to Florida on 1955. http://www.saxophone.org/museum/mouthpieces/model/217
did the Florida double ring production start in 1955 or end in 1955?
Thanks for the link :).

If Otto Link moved to Florida in 1955 (I have no reason to doubt that!) the run of NY Double Ring would be from 1949 to 1955. In that case Florida Double Ring run would have started in 1955 and stopped somewhere between 1955 and 1965 (say 195x). Ben Harrod took over Otto Link company in 1965, which is also seen as the start of the Florida USA model.

This would give these estimated years of production:
- NY Double Ring - 1949-1955 - running 6 years
- Florida Double Ring - 1955-195x - running 1 (for x=6) to 4 (for x=9) years
- Florida no USA - 195x-1965 - running 9 (for x=6) to 6 (for x=9) years
- Florida USA - 1965-1974

With above estimation I would assume much more or equal amounts of Double Ring and Florida no USA models offered on the market, but in reality you don't see much NY- or Florida Double Rings for sale or played compared to Florida no USA models (assuming constant production figures over the years). You actually see much more Florida no USA and Tone Masters (running from 1940-1949) on the market compared to Double Rings, so I would assume a much smaller period of production then what above information suggests. A smaller production period for Double Rings seems logical, but that can only be the case if the NY stamp was removed from the model before the move of Otto Link to Florida in 1955.

I think we need more information/research to get the years of production for each model more reliable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,309 Posts
Now what we need is someone to do this work for the HR Otto Links........That's where most of the confusion seems to be nowadays............
Good luck with that. It seems everybody thinks they have an Early Babbit. It is next to impossible to get good photos of hard rubber mouthpieces.
As with metal, it all comes down to the baffle shape and the height of the floor as to if they'll play well. Someone posted the measure ment the correct height of the floor to be a well playing Tone Edge. It was probably Dr.Bunte. He seems to know what's what with Links.
 

·
Administrator Emeritus
Joined
·
18,485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Good luck with that. It seems everybody thinks they have an Early Babbit. It is next to impossible to get good photos of hard rubber mouthpieces.
As with metal, it all comes down to the baffle shape and the height of the floor as to if they'll play well. Someone posted the measure ment the correct height of the floor to be a well playing Tone Edge. It was probably Dr.Bunte. He seems to know what's what with Links.
Good points whaler.

It was Mojo who posted some measurements on EB floor heights >here< and he credited drakesaxprof for putting him on to that >here<.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Hi I'm relatively new to posting comments and finding the best place to post them but I think this is probably the best place for this question.

What is the difference if any between the new Otto link stm and the new "vintage" Otto link stm. And how do either of them compare to authentic vintage pieces?

Thanks
~Dillon
 
1 - 20 of 78 Posts
Top