D#min7, G#7, C# but better to use Ebm7, Ab7, Dbnew2sax said:I guess the question is, if I want to derive the ii-V-I chords from say the C# scale, do I use C# maj7, D-7, and G7, or C#Maj, (D#7????)Eb-7, and G#7? Or neither. See where I get confused?
You're not being dense at all. In fact your "confusion" and questions lead me to believe you're pretty intelligent, so I'll take a chance on confusing you further. Read on.NU2SAX said:I could simply follow the formula, which would give me C#, E#, G#, B# for the i chord, D#, F#, A#, C# for the ii chord, and G#, B#, D#, F# for the V chord. But the chords also are chords with a name in and of themselves right? So is there a D# minor 7th chord. I know there's an Eb minor 7th.
Am I being really dense or what?
Right on, that's definitely the way to do it. Carrying this concept a bit further, when you start practicing the chord arpeggios and ii-V-I patterns on the horn, get away from the written music as quickly as possible and learn to play them without reading the notes. You'll learn them better that way and it will be easier to incorporate the ii-V-I progression when improvising. Having said that, everyone is different, so do whatever gets results. Be patient, too.NU2SAX said:I sat down with the major scales and figured each ii-V-i out and then checked them against a listing of scales I found in a theory book. I did get them right. I figured it would sink in better if I spelled them out on my own rather than just copying them down...
If you practice scales following the circle of fourths (or circle of fifths, depending where you live ), you'll eventually get the grip of it. And it gets a lot easier finding the chords in the scales :NU2SAX said:Yes, it's the enharmonic notes that were throwing me off. I think I was being dense in a way because I know about enharmonic notes. When I practice my scales I don't "practice" the three enharmonic scales, if you know what I mean, I practice/think C# and not Db, etc.
Probably the best way to practice transposing along the cycle would be "backwards" to the order Jolle states. That is, moving up in 4ths or down in 5ths: B E A D G C F Bb Eb Ab Db (C#) F#Jolle said:If you also remember the sequence : F-C-G-D-A-E-B and backwards.
Don't fall into this trap.NU2SAX said:I practice/think C# and not Db, etc.
Absolutely true. I was more referring of the order the sharps (and backwards : the flats) were added when proceeding through the circle. It comes from the classic education here.JL said:Probably the best way to practice transposing along the cycle would be "backwards" to the order Jolle states. That is, moving up in 4ths or down in 5ths: B E A D G C F Bb Eb Ab Db (C#) F#
Most chord progressions move in this direction, using fragments of the cycle.