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That's an odd one.

Low C guard is the Conn shape but little else looks Conn. Front high F is very unusual shape for the apparent age. Left hand little finger keys look like Buescher early True Tone, or maybe a very early Holton. I have never seen an instrument with a pearl G# and same-side bell keys except the Selmer Super, which this ain't.

I suspect this is not of American manufacture but rather a European made instrument with design features drawn from various American makes, and then sold in the US.

Condition looks excellent. Plating is almost certainly nickel.

Quality could be anywhere from lousy to excellent.

Let's see what some others theorize.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Quality could be anywhere from lousy to excellent.:)

Yup, hard to see from photos. .. might be a fake, but but would be really strange faking an unknown, and such awkard pinky table.
 

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Quality of build aside, there is little chance that it is playable, and every chance that it will cost several times the price of the instrument to install new pads and set it up to play.

If you want a wall hanging or lamp, it’s a great price. If you want a horn to learn to play, this is not the one.
 

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Actually, it would cost me usd 70 for new pads and resonators, maybe say an extra usd 50 for pearls, cork, felts etcetera if needed.

My time is my own, and I personally consider it am investment in my quality of life if I use it in a worthwhile way doing something that I enjoy doing, rather than sitting watching TV.

I don't need an alto to learn on... learnt 20 years ago on a Tenor (selmer series 3). I do have a dolnet m70 alto that I use occasionaly, but it is the tenor that I love. I recently sold my YTS 62 (late mark 1, not purple logo) .. actually to a member of this forum, because I was not using it as I suck at music, no sense of rhythm and tone deaf... despite that, I really enjoy playing for myself.

I currently have a 1981 Weltklang model 241 which I repadded (thanks musicmedic), and set up to my own satisfaction... a pro sax player might find it not regulated to their satisfaction, but hey, its not for sale, and it feels good to me. I am also busy doing up a Dolnet series 2, again for myself.

This alto interested me because i have no idea what it is.... I doubt if I would buy it, unless someone tells me its a rare hidden jewel
 

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Thanks, megwenda, for taking the time to share that. I get what you are saying.

Enjoy the Path.



Tenor - It’s all that matters.
To me.
IMNSHO
 

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Weren't there some Eastern European makers back in the day that copied elements of American design? Maybe it's Soviet? Regardless, probably not much of a player I'd guess.
 

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Actually, it would cost me usd 70 for new pads and resonators, maybe say an extra usd 50 for pearls, cork, felts etcetera if needed.

My time is my own, and I personally consider it am investment in my quality of life if I use it in a worthwhile way doing something that I enjoy doing, rather than sitting watching TV.

I don't need an alto to learn on... learnt 20 years ago on a Tenor (selmer series 3). I do have a dolnet m70 alto that I use occasionaly, but it is the tenor that I love. I recently sold my YTS 62 (late mark 1, not purple logo) .. actually to a member of this forum, because I was not using it as I suck at music, no sense of rhythm and tone deaf... despite that, I really enjoy playing for myself.

I currently have a 1981 Weltklang model 241 which I repadded (thanks musicmedic), and set up to my own satisfaction... a pro sax player might find it not regulated to their satisfaction, but hey, its not for sale, and it feels good to me. I am also busy doing up a Dolnet series 2, again for myself.

This alto interested me because i have no idea what it is.... I doubt if I would buy it, unless someone tells me its a rare hidden jewel
So you know how to repair saxophones yourself ? If so, and you want a repair project, perhaps buy it. However, given what I see there the horn (as mentioned by others) has almost zero market value and you would have a hard time selling it.

Also you wanna make sure it is Low Pitch.

It seems to me you already have better altos.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the answers.

Quote However, given what I see there the horn (as mentioned by others) has almost zero market value end quote

Actually, no-one has identified the horn yet, so no-one can say what its market value is!
 

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I think this isn’t an American made sax but, in all probability made in Bohemia ( saxophones called New York, American or Pennsylvania have never anything to do with this) in Graslitz.

This to me is clearly a Kohlert Model 27






There is no need to identify this exactly to know that its value is very relative and , unless you are able to do it yourself or use a very cheap repairer, fixing this will cost more than it is “ worth” it.

Again (as many other times) if this would be an family heirloom or you have any emotional attachment , sure! Otherwise there are better ways to spend, even this limited amount of money.

My advise is to buy only if you are aware of the fact that its value is only in the eyes of the beholder.
 

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Thanks for the answers.

Quote However, given what I see there the horn (as mentioned by others) has almost zero market value end quote

Actually, no-one has identified the horn yet, so no-one can say what its market value is!
Actually, haha...VERY good...but that logic is somewhat flawed:

IF a horn has no markings and is not of any major/commonly recognizable vintage brand, and no obvious attributes which would hint towards any recognizable vintage brand.....

...and adding to that the pearl G# touch....which is not a detail sax players are enamoured with....

....then as a purveyor and refurbisher of vintage musical instruments for 17 years now...I'd posit with a fair degree of confidence:

this sax has little or no market value. As a refurber, I would dissuade someone from purchasing this horn unless they needed a neck or a parts horn (or wanted to hone their DIY sax repair skills).

As the market sees it, it just becomes another obscure old horn....

To Milandro's hypothesis...it is a pretty good one, but I am not certain it is a straight-up Kohlert 27.

Here are some differences I note:

~ The center leg of the bell keyguards on Kohlert 27 terminate at the tonehole, while this sax has ones which seem to terminate at the body.

~ The C# pinky touch has double rollers on the Kohlert.

~ The Kohlert has a Fork Eb.

~ The style of the bow/body/bell ferrules is different.

But a it also has details which are quite similar. So a pared-down Kohlert, or one which pre-dates the model 27 ? ...made as a stencil for someone ? Yeah, that's a fair/good attribution....

Interesting aspect here is usually round G# pearl touches are connected to split-bellkey horns, they vanished by the time same-side key hors appeared, with the exception of the Holton Rudy. So one wonders if that detail, present on a Bohemian horn, was sort of piggybacking on the Rudy models (?) Like the Rudys, this has a front F key...which again suggests an intention to mix some 'modern' and older mechanisms onto one horn (like Rudys did).

So....interesting. Unfortunately, while all of this is interesting to vintage nerds such as myself and others here :bluewink: it does little to make that horn of any value on the vintage market, particularly in the absence of any engraving.

But if an old Kohlert, it is likely to be really BUILT well. And since it does actually have a full keywork compliment....it may even become a nice player if refurbished. It'd just have no market, so it'd be a personal, sympathetic endeavor.

 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks to Milandro and JayeLID

I think between you you have provided the answer... yes, more than likely from Bohemia, probably a Kohlert, possibly a stencil of some sort (no markings).
The American 'origin' probably explaing by the info from saxpics that 1955-65 Kohlert entered into disasterous contracts with the Ami's, and the changes noticed above were to cut cost by minimising handwork?

Many thanks for all contributions, and no, I will not be buying it
 

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Discussion Starter #14
No I hadn't.. do you consider that a clue?
 
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