[benliner]

Hello

I got this from eBay and am very pleased with it;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....m=160136888038&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006
It will need some work on the regulation before I start playing it out. I think the keys are set too low, but for the price paid I have no complaints at all.
Can anyone state from the serial no, 35xxxx, whether it is a series III or IV?
Bell keys on what I would call the left, viewed from behind.

This is my first tenor bari and will need a new mouthpiece.
On tenor I am happy with a number 8 * Otto Link rubber and either La Voz med/med hard or Vandoren V16 2 1/2.
What is an equivalent mouthpiece and reed setup for a bari for someone that is used to the above for a tenor?
With thanks

 

[retread]

The HR Links work well for bari. Tip and reeds? Whatever works best for you. Bari does take a lot of air, so keep that in mind--you might want to start with a 7 or 7*.

 

[Pinnman]

I have the impression that the bari sequence from Buescher was TT, art deco Aristocrat, Big B and them 400 (the revised 400 without the TH&C engraving and which went on for ever). I am not even too sure about a TH&C bari; does any one know whether they were made?

The essence of all this, though, is that benliner's sax is simply a Big B bari.

 

[SephirothTNH]

If I'm not mistaken the Big B is a series 2 aristocrat. The series 3 was mostly the same but didn't have the same engraving and the series 4 had some things from the 400 and then changed further later in the line. So If it has a big B engraving it is a series 2

 

[Pinnman]

Yes, SephirothTNH, but the point of my post is that this is a bari and some of the series were omitted. (Compare Selmer: Mark VI to SA 80 - no Mk VII, no Serie 2 or Serie 3.) Therefore a Big B is simply the 'Crat model after the art deco model and before the 400.

 

[SactoPete]

Well, whatever you call it, I'm betting it's a great horn. I use a pre-buyout 400 for my bari and it is a lovely beast. I'm almost positive that there was never an "official" TH&C bari offered. There might be a couple of factory-specials, you never know (a pro player request, for example), but I've never seen nor heard of one. Regardless, the construction etc of my lowly 400 looks a great deal like my TH&C tenor... so I suppose it doesn't really matter about the engraving!

Anyways, I think that the RPC .115B that I have is dandy, but it really depends on what kind of music you want to play and the sound profile you are looking for. You want to be nice and smooth or a chainsaw? How much volume do you need / want?

You know, on a lark I picked up a Rico Graftonite B7 bari piece, and it plays totally decently, good volume and a middle-to-edgy sound. For under 20 bucks, you couldnt go wrong with one of those...

Pete

 

[benliner]

Thanks for all the info

Just noticed I wrote "my first tenor bari", (?!?!) meant to say "my first bari".

It does have a big "B" engraving. (It doesn't actually read "Big B"!)
I also forgot to mention that the model number after the serial number is 129.
So mostly things point to it being a series II Aristocrat, includiing the classification on saxpics.
Except for one thing, which is that on saxpics the highest serial number for that class is 334xxx, whereas mine is 354xxx, which according to the saxpics page actually puts it in series IV. I wrote to saxpics about that, thinking he may want to verify it and change the highest seen serial number on the web page.

Thanks for the tips about mouthpieces.
Sactopete, I like volume!!! I also like to play as many different tones as possible and would consider having 2 mps, one for smooth and one for chainsaw, but a local guy gave me a really good tip for shaving reeds to convert a smooth sound to a chainsaw, which is to shave a strip down both edges. I always trim my reeds that way now.
I'll have a search for a Rico Graftonite!

 

[Pinnman]

benliner, Please read my posts again; I think you will find the reason fro the apparent discrepancy in model number there. Saxpics is correct.

 

[benliner]

Aah, Pinnman, It's gradually sinking in!!!
So I was missing the point by trying to establish whether it is a series II or III or IV, it's a big "B" and that's as far as it goes,
I hope I've got that right and thank you for explaining this.
However may I make the point that the saxpic page does observe the specific model codes for baris, 129 , S80, etc, and whereas my serial number is in the saxpics S80 range, the model code on my sax is 129 which is for the lower serial numbers.

 

[Pinnman]

I think the question of bari model numbers stumped even Pete Hales, who started saxpics. The numbers may well have changed after about 1960 or 1963. Buescher seems to have been in a fair old muddle from about 1957 onwards.

Glad you understand the point about the model range. Good luck.

 

[PP400]

ah...I was just about to pose the question "was there a TH&C baritone " when I read this.

"SactoPete: I use a pre-buyout 400 for my bari and it is a lovely beast. I'm almost positive that there was never an "official" TH&C bari offered. Regardless, the construction etc of my lowly 400 looks a great deal like my TH&C tenor... "

I have a bit of a 400 collection going....400 tenor 478xxx, 400alto 575xxx, 400 Bari 377xxx , super400 Alto 391xxx For the early 60's Bari & super400, the layout is nearly identical (incl keys, post supports, toneholes, etc even engraving)
- although the super 400 is built like a tank (a beautiful tank) with 4 rods ending above the bow in a massive post support/brace. http://www.saxpics.com/cpg143/displayimage.php?album=5945&pos=3 . - from what I can see in the pics, this is unique to the super 400. ???

Apart from this the only differences I can pick between the 400bari & super400 alto are: (ok smarty pants...the bari is a bit bigger...)

The bow on the super 400 is wider than the 400bari , (& the 400tenor & the 400alto ).
The g# pinky key is smaller on the bari than all the others.

not much info on the serial numbers for the bari at http://www.saxpics.com/buescher/400.htm so it would be interesting to know when the 400 baritone actually started its run. The only one pictured there is 1960. hmmm...?

 

[rambert]

Hello

This is my first tenor bari and will need a new mouthpiece.
On tenor I am happy with a number 8 * Otto Link rubber and either La Voz med/med hard or Vandoren V16 2 1/2.
What is an equivalent mouthpiece and reed setup for a bari for someone that is used to the above for a tenor?
With thanks

I also bought a Big B earlier this year and so far I've had nothing but compliments about its great sound.

If your Big B will react the same as mine, you'll find that many modern mouthpieces will play out of tune because they have too small a chamber and you'll need a very big chambered mpc or one with a extra long shank.

From personal experience I know that on my Big B
- a Lamberson SB (and I've read the same about a DD) plays OK, just like one of those old 'fat' mpcs
- a STM Link plays out of tune. I had to have the chamber enlarged to get that right
- an old (sixties?) HR Berg Larsen chamber 3 plays out of tune, but less than the STM and I can correct this with throat/embouchure

There are a few other mpc's that I still want to try: the customised V5 Vandoren that's on the Junkdude website and one of those old Woodwind Co, but I haven't had that chance yet.

 

[benliner]

Rambert, thank you very much for these tips.
I will take my tuning fork with me when I go mpc shopping.
What is an STM Link? Is that a rubber Otto Link or a metal, or neither?
I would be interested to know more exactly how out of tune you reckon it is with this mpc, is it sharp or flat and does it increase going up or down the range, or variably depending which notes?
I am looking forward to giving feedback but very busy right now and working on this bari is going to be a project.
The rim of the high E tone hole is bent inwards for about 10% of the circumference, although this appears to be an old injury and it might be that the
pad has accomodated for it, I have yet to find out.
I have drawn a complete blank looking for a rectangular hard case for a low Bb bari. There is a site in Taiwan that seems to sell them/make them but so far they are not answering my emails, I will call them up in the middle of the night and see if they speak english.

 

[JL]

So I was missing the point by trying to establish whether it is a series II or III or IV, it's a big "B" and that's as far as it goes,
I hope I've got that right....

However may I make the point that the saxpic page does observe the specific model codes for baris, 129 , S80, etc, and whereas my serial number is in the saxpics S80 range, the model code on my sax is 129 which is for the lower serial numbers.

I believe all "series I, II, III," etc for Bueschers is simply a way to put them in order in terms of when they were manufactured. I don't think Buescher ever referred to their horns with those series numbers, regardless of whether you're looking at tenors, baris, altos, etc. Pinnman has it right. True Tone, then Aristocrats, and finally the 400 model. The "Big B" refers to the engraving (a single "B" as you say) given to one of the Aristocrat models.

The serial number cut offs are only approximate. There are exceptions. I have an "art deco" Aristocrat tenor with a serial number that would place it in the early Big B catagory, but it's not a Big B.

You can rest assured you have a great horn there!

 

[rambert]

What is an STM Link? Is that a rubber Otto Link or a metal, or neither?

It's a Super Tone Master Link and that's the normal metal one you can buy nowadays.

I would be interested to know more exactly how out of tune you reckon it is with this mpc, is it sharp or flat and does it increase going up or down the range, or variably depending which notes?

It probably varies a bit (embouchure, slight difference in the sax, etc...), but on my Big B and STM - and without any attempts at correcting - the palm keys were about 20 cents flat, high B, A and G were about 30 cents flat, and the low F, E and D were about 25 cents sharp.
After enlarging the chamber from something of 24 ml to 29 ml, the maximum deviation was 10% either way and was very easily corrected.

I am looking forward to giving feedback but very busy right now and working on this bari is going to be a project.

My teacher couldn't understand at first why I chose such a 'difficult' bari with all these mpc problems, but he seems to get a bit jealous nowadays of the sound I get with it

I have drawn a complete blank looking for a rectangular hard case for a low Bb bari. There is a site in Taiwan that seems to sell them/make them but so far they are not answering my emails, I will call them up in the middle of the night and see if they speak english.

Mine came with the original case, so I can't give you any tips here, but good luck with the search!