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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My favorite tech tells me that he has a Haynes flute with plateau keys and the following description: "Drawn tone hole, offset G, C foot. Sterling throughout. No model number on flute". He didn't provide the serial number in his email but I have asked and I know that I can determine the year in which it was made from that information.

But is there a way to determine the model? Maybe the absence of a model number is a clue in itself, similar to vintage Buffet R13 clarinets bearing no model number (just wondering).

All suggestions welcome.

KM
 

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There is no model number as they only really made 2 basic models, drawn or soldered tone holes (different keywork) in open or closed hole. The one you mention should say "the Wm. S Haynes Flute" and have a serial number below that. The better ones were after about 14,000 and have the low C# spatula rather than 2 foot rollers. From serial number 20,000-30,000 tend to be the ones people like. These are great doubler's flutes and heavy. Really good condition (new pads, no marks) should be in the $1,500 range and needing work about $800.
 

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You need a serial number I have one like that but from 1922 in mint condition case and all its an amazing flute .
I'm curious what makes it an amazing flute. I've always wanted a Haynes and recently traveled to look at two custom Haynes from the 40's and 50's. Both were in fine shape, but besides being pre- Cooper scale and subsequently more difficult to play in tune, they were pretty anemic sounding.
 

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I equate them (old Haynes) to old metal Otto Link tenor mpcs. If you are used to Dukoffs or any higher baffle mpcs (think MODERN flute headjoint) then a metal Link (Haynes) sounds dull & not too projecting, but when you put in the time & learn how to play one, your sound opens up & you get all the COLOR and your high baffle suddenly doesnt sound or feel so great anymore!

These are not instant gratification or "dialed-in" flutes.
 

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Well I like Bill McBirnie's tone and he is still using his Haynes flutes from the early 70's. They were some of the best flutes available when he bought them I'm sure and over the years he has worked out the nuances to play it in tune. But it does seem to me that the changes made to flutes over the last 20 years or so, have probably improved the quality of the tone one can achieve, and achieve it easier. I don't think players like Galway would have dumped their Haynes flute unless they were going to something that improved their playing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It turns out that there are actually five different Haynes flutes available. Rather than provide the serial numbers, I was given the years that they were produced. I have added the ser no ranges for those years (downloaded from the Haynes web page):

1931 (11641 - 11984)
1933 (12259 - 12483)
1953 (22820 - 28516)
1958 (27242 - 28333)
1961 (30296 - 31238)

Can anyone add information/opinions about Haynes flutes from these periods?

Thanks,

KM
 

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My first Haynes was a standard model I had in 1969. AT the time I found that it was a great flute and dark sounding (they were .018") but with time, I found the heads a bit lacking compared to modern ones, even from large makers. I get older Haynes and Powell heads and just have trouble selling them as even a standard modern sterling head tends to play better. I can even turn out a $300 head that sells better than the vintage Boston ones. Different story with their newer heads but they tend to be expensive.
An alternative to the Haynes would be an H. Bettoney which can be found with good pads for under $700 and the real winner is the old Sterling Selmer US flutes that are common with military markings. These are usually in the .020-.022" range and really powerful. Also can be found in mint condition for about $1,000 or less.
I wouldn't go much over $1,200 for any of the Haynes standards as you can find a nice Yamaha with the plated keys for less and it probably will play quite well.
 

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Rampal's flute was in this serial range 1958 (27242 - 28333).

As far as the other guys statement, if you like Galway's tone & concept, well, thats great, thats the "modern" sound, I suppose. He played a Haynes when he was a young guy & learned the right way to play, then gravitated towards a brighter sound & equipment that let him achieve the concept he heard in his head. (In my Link analogy, the same could be said about Mike Brecker's gravitating to high baffle, after playing Links earlier in his career--in his case, because of his throat condition)

The point is, Galway could play an old Haynes & believe me, it wouldn't sound dull or lifeless (or outta tune), cuz he KNOWS how to play one.

So many players use pre-cooper scale & have NO problems. Gary Schocker, Lew Tabackin, play pre-cooper hayneses. Probably 80% of the Broadway woodwind doublers in NY use pre-cooper Hayneses & Powells, with no problem. Cooper scale, if you play in today's symphony orchestras, would make you life more easy, but in almost all other cases...Ya don't need it!
 

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For me the old Haynes flutes have a charm like vintage Selmer saxes,they are certainly not perfect instruments,but they have a depth of character that makes them very interesting to play and hear.I've heard it a number of times on SOTW that a Yamaha flute plays better than an old Haynes.If you know more about saxophones than flutes,it's like hearing a person say a new Yamaha sax plays better than a BA Selmer...they just might in many respects,but it is the SOUL where they differ,the warmth ,colour and depth department.Personally if I'm playing classical music I like to play my Burkart,it has an incredible modern action and tonal response,but for jazz music the Haynes has a sound and feel that is really special,tonally there is a rich warmth which can be imbued with the blues,I just don't feel that on a Yamaha.A perfect instrument no,but expressive,you bet.I hope you find a nice one,I like how my old instrument plays with it's original head,I also like a modern Haynes head with gold riser which I bought,the modern Haynes head is powerful, responsive and crisp,but still sounds like a Haynes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well I like Bill McBirnie's tone and he is still using his Haynes flutes from the early 70's. They were some of the best flutes available when he bought them I'm sure and over the years he has worked out the nuances to play it in tune. But it does seem to me that the changes made to flutes over the last 20 years or so, have probably improved the quality of the tone one can achieve, and achieve it easier. I don't think players like Galway would have dumped their Haynes flute unless they were going to something that improved their playing.
I just ran across three YouTube videos of Bill McBirnie recorded in 2006 in Toronto:




I certaintly cannot say which flute he was playing but I will be more than happy create such a nice sound on an old Haynes...

KM
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Let us know how it goes. I went to a shop with $3000 to buy a 1957 custom Haynes and after comparing it to a 1979 Muramatsu they had , and even my 1985 Mateki I wanted to trade in , couldn't bring myself to fork over the $$$.
There turned out to be 4 Haynes flutes in playable condition: the 1933, 1953, 1958 and 1961. The last one (ser no 30xxx) played the best for me by far, esp. the upper register which speaks clearly and easily. The others had good looking pads and no obvious leaks, although they may have required some adjustments. The 1961 model is sterling silver throughout with gold springs, drawn tone holes, plateau keys, inline G and C foot and is in excellent condition. I now have it at home on trial for a few days.

We didn't dwell pricing but it appears that it can be had for around $2,200 US, which will likely be the minimum starting bid on eBay.

Comments?
 

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All of these models are sterling with gold springs. That is a high price for a standard model Haynes. I would say about $1,600 would be tops. There are a lot of these around and For $2,500ish you can get a soldered tone hole open hole low B which has a much better resale value.......no one keeps a flute forever!
 

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There turned out to be 4 Haynes flutes in playable condition: the 1933, 1953, 1958 and 1961. The last one (ser no 30xxx) played the best for me by far, esp. the upper register which speaks clearly and easily. The others had good looking pads and no obvious leaks, although they may have required some adjustments. The 1961 model is sterling silver throughout with gold springs, drawn tone holes, plateau keys, inline G and C foot and is in excellent condition. I now have it at home on trial for a few days.

We didn't dwell pricing but it appears that it can be had for around $2,200 US, which will likely be the minimum starting bid on eBay.

Comments?
$2200 is quite high as Bruce said.
I paid $1200 for my '41 Haynes and $1700 for my '61- both commercial models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
$2200 is quite high as Bruce said.
I paid $1200 for my '41 Haynes and $1700 for my '61- both commercial models.
Thanks for the comments. I'm in the process of investigating the asking prices of comparable models from other sources.

Just curious about the condition of your instruments when you purchased them -- i.e., was there an additional cost for COA, repadding, or overhaul? And I'm wondering to what extent the price of silver might affect pricing. Although Ag has recently "crashed", dropping 35% since the end of April, it is still 4x what it was only 2.5 years ago...

KM
 
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