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Discussion Starter #1
I went basically for the Masterclass. Learned a little from that but one student had a better tone than the other students (and the teacher truth be told) so I asked her what she was playing and she said Miyazawa . which I had never trialed. So I played the basic/ 101 and 202 instruments (3200 4300 5300) and they all sound better than my Powell Sonore with the aurumite head. They wouldn't budge on price and offered me 1800 for my Powell (year old spent 3300) . I showed them Ebay 202s and higher selling for 2600 and cheaper and they didn't like that brought into the equation. Anyway, my point is that I was really surprised in a great way by how easily and with such a complex tone all the Miyazawas played. Kind of like playing my first selmer sax? Funny thing is they were all silver instruments and I thought my next flute would be gold. But don't know now? K
 

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Did you try just the Miyazawa head on your flute?

If “just” silver, vs your next gold acquisition, you are set to save many thousands of dollars. Congrats!
 

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These are great flutes. I've had a couple in for service over time and even the 'entry' models blow the opposition away....wonder why?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys, I wish I had known about these before I bought the Powell, but we'll see whats next K
 

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Please keep us posted. My flute (Bruce Bailey w/ Drelinger head) is plenty for me, but it is always interesting to learn of other’s experiences.

Enjoy the Quest!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Bruce was kind enough to send out a few heads to me a few months. ago. Maybe we need to schedule a flute day with you and me doc? Sonoma, I'll take you to some wineries if you want K
 

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I trialed all the major brands before purchasing my Miyazawas (301 and a 402 heavy wall) 15 and 12 years ago. I have also tried multiple flutes since then and still haven't found anything that beats either one within a similar price range. Now I just wish I could afford to add a Miyazawa Alto to the mix (currently playing a Gemeinhardt that I purchased new in 1973).
 

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Bruce was kind enough to send out a few heads to me a few months. ago. Maybe we need to schedule a flute day with you and me doc? Sonoma, I'll take you to some wineries if you want K
Thanks for the kind offer, Keith. I do hope to cross paths with you some day.

Bruce gave me a few heads to try when I bought my flute from him - and a bass flute on another occasion.

Miyazawa flutes: If you had searched on “What’s the best flute?”, you may have found the answer sooner. :twisted:


I trialed all the major brands before purchasing my Miyazawas (301 and a 402 heavy wall) 15 and 12 years ago. I have also tried multiple flutes since then and still haven't found anything that beats either one within a similar price range. Now I just wish I could afford to add a Miyazawa Alto to the mix (currently playing a Gemeinhardt that I purchased new in 1973).
Hah! Yeah, I just checked the prices on the Miyazawa alto flute, too. Oh my... I think I will remain happy with my Jupiter for many years to come. I don’t know that I even want to try the Miyazawa. What would I do if I liked it?
 

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A few months back Matthew's had a Miyazawa BR602 full Brogger System flute on sale for a really cheap price, about $3700, because it was a C foot and plateau style keys, both of which would have been fine with me. I came close to buying that flute several times just because I thought it was such a good deal on a flute that would have been twice that price with open holes and a B foot. I tried a couple of very expensive ($20k+) gold Miyazawas at Flutastic here in Fort Collins CO and wasn't really crazy about them which dissuaded me from pulling the trigger on the BR602. I played a bunch of flutes in the $3-$5k range over the course of a few weeks and every time I went back I liked a different one. First an early '90s Haynes Deveau, then a hand-made heavy walled DiZhao, and finally a Muramatsu GXIII. I took that all to mean that I'm just not a good enough flute player to know what I really want/like consistently outside of an offset G and C Foot.
 

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I'm playing a lot of flute lately preparing for my graduate recital at the University of Maine I'm planning to do next fall. I love my old Haynes, it's in the shop now, so I'm borrowing a Yamaha owned by the school. There's so much more focus and power in the newer horns like this Yamaha, and yet my Haynes feels more expressive in some ways. I've never tried a Miyasawa, but will at the first opportunity noe that I've heard your comments. Getting a new headjoint is problematic due to the smaller size of my Haynes. Just like my BA alto, I love having a more vintage horn, but would love to also have a newer alto like a Yamaha Z maybe. It's just such a huge investment for a hobbyist like me to own more than one horn.
 

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Keith, see if you can trial play some Miyazawa flutes along side with some made by Maramatsu. You won’t be disappointed. What Sonare model are you playing now?
 

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I play Miyazawa.

When I decided about 15 years ago to get a really nice flute, one that could last me the rest of my life, I tried out a bunch. I had a rough budget in the under $5000 range. One of the things I liked about Miyazawa is that they subscribe less to the "all-silver is required to have a decent flute" BS than most. The model I ended up with (I believe it's #202) has solid silver head (more about that below) and plated body and keys. At least according to Miyazawa's literature, they claim that the plated flutes receive the same assembly and adjustment process a the solid silver ones.

As to the solid silver head, moving to the #202 gets you the option to choose amongst different heads, which I did. I suspect the only reason you only get that option with the solid-silver-head flutes is marketing. But I wanted the ability to try out different heads. I suspect that the solid solver heads were the same amongst all the Miyazawa models - in other words, that the super-expensive all silver Miyazawa has the same solid silver head as the plated body-silver head one that I bought.

As to silver vs. plated, frankly, my understanding from reading closely the published material from people who have REALLY investigated this (rather than just repeating what they've been told) is that it doesn't make a lick of difference as long as the manufacturing quality controls are comparable. Furthermore, as an engineer I know that plated nickel alloy keywork is going to be more resistant to wear and bending than sterling silver keywork, and the tube will be more resistant to getting dinged.

But I would have ignored all this if the actual testing and playing had not been good. If I remember correctly, I had a Powell, Sankyo, Haynes, Muramatsu, and Miyazawa out for trial at different times. I ended up with a Sankyo and the Miyazawa as my final two choices and played them at home for some considerable time before finally settling on the Miyazawa on the basis of tone and response.

I have not played a flute that I liked any better than my plated body silver head Miyazawa. Personally I think anyone could be fully satisfied with a plated body silver head Miyazawa, Muramatsu, or Sankyo, if it's one of the "handmade in Japan" ones. I certainly would very seriously consider these flutes before deciding that you need a gold flute.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Keith, see if you can trial play some Miyazawa flutes along side with some made by Maramatsu. You won’t be disappointed. What Sonare model are you playing now?
I have a Powell Sonore with an Aurumite head. When I trialed and bought that horn last year it was the best one of the bunch I had to choose from and the 5200 down to purchase of 3300 was okay for me. ( i wish I had been able to try one of these flutes at the time)

Funny thing is I would never buy a new car, I've always gotten cars at 3 years old with lots of life and at half retail cost usually so I'm thinking that what I should have done with flutes. I did that with my alto , got a great 82Z for 1800.

. Im seeing used olde rMiyazawa flutes for 2600 and I know I can resell my Powell for close to 2K. I hate to be in this state of mind but I can't "unhear" how good I was sounding even on the base model of Miyazawa. I even like the tone of the Miyazawi over a gold brannon they had there. Funny thing is the Miyazawa s I tried didn't have solid silver body like my Powell or the fancy aurumite head. But sounded killer. Heres why I considered them at all. I heard all 5 students play and then teacher from Sac State . the girl (16 or so) playing the Miyasawa sounded noticeably better. Flutes seem to change my tone much more noticeably than saxes do. Heads of course make a difference. Well, this is what you get when you get more info? So I'll ask my teacher today. She's trialed and done reviews on many many flutes. (Joanne Tse, JAF Just another flutiest on You tube K
 

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Flutes seem to change my tone much more noticeably than saxes do. Heads of course make a difference.
You mentioned the heads that Bruce sent you - do you hear differences among those?

Maybe it got lost in the mix, but did you get to test the various Miyazawa heads on bodies other than Miyazawa? Or was there an incompatibility issue with diameters?

Regarding body tube material: I have a couple nickel silver flutes made by John Lehner that convinced me that design and execution outweigh materials.
 

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You mentioned the heads that Bruce sent you - do you hear differences among those?

Maybe it got lost in the mix, but did you get to test the various Miyazawa heads on bodies other than Miyazawa? Or was there an incompatibility issue with diameters?

Regarding body tube material: I have a couple nickel silver flutes made by John Lehner that convinced me that design and execution outweigh materials.
Some of the most highly prized flutes on earth are the old Louis Lot and Bonneville flutes with nickel silver bodies and heads.

What it's made of means almost nothing, but it's used in marketing of flutes extensively.

There have been dozens of discussions on this very issue.

Keith, please do not assume that "solid silver" in itself confers any benefit to the flute.
 

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Some of the most highly prized flutes on earth are the old Louis Lot and Bonneville flutes with nickel silver bodies and heads.

What it's made of means almost nothing, but it's used in marketing of flutes extensively.

There have been dozens of discussions on this very issue.

Keith, please do not assume that "solid silver" in itself confers any benefit to the flute.
I have played some great Louis Lots and Bonneville flutes. Both Nickel Silver. I got to play them post overhaul too and man they have a hauntingly beautiful sound!

So yes, design does mean a whole Lot (pun intended), BUT material does make a difference in sound and quite a significant one at that.

Crappy design, poorly made in solid silver and yes, you will have a poor flute. Great design, meticulous handcrafting made out of aluminum or nickel silver and you will have a fabulous flute!!

All this being said, Silver flutes sound different than gold which sounds different than platinum. Same design, different material yields wildly different feel and sound.

Some flautists prefer gold and it's quite popular, but there is something so timeless about the sound of solid silver. It has highs and lows (not as many lows as gold) and projects well.

So be in a nutshell, there is a reason why Solid Silver is the standard and not other metals.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Okay i had a great lesson with my teacher. She made some good points. 1. She said I"m silver body and aurumite/silver head so go for the silver /silver flute. 2. I have a low B now offset G and open hole , make sure I get a low B and open hole in whatever. 3. I might have noticed a big tonal difference with the Miyazawa but I have a narrow tonal range now and Ill be able to do a better job of testing a flute with more work on the Powell. So she talked me out of running to the closed hole inline Miyasawa 400 I saw on Reverb and now for what I eventually want to get it'll probably be a newer used 400 from a store consignment where I can easily send it back if I don't like it and its been looked at for pads. So the price range looks more 4K than 2600. More practice and more time before I do anything K
 

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Okay i had a great lesson with my teacher. She made some good points. 1. She said I"m silver body and aurumite/silver head so go for the silver /silver flute. 2. I have a low B now offset G and open hole , make sure I get a low B and open hole in whatever. 3. I might have noticed a big tonal difference with the Miyazawa but I have a narrow tonal range now and Ill be able to do a better job of testing a flute with more work on the Powell. So she talked me out of running to the closed hole inline Miyasawa 400 I saw on Reverb and now for what I eventually want to get it'll probably be a newer used 400 from a store consignment where I can easily send it back if I don't like it and its been looked at for pads. So the price range looks more 4K than 2600. More practice and more time before I do anything K

Well, you have to temper your choices given that your teacher appears to have strong opinions on equipment, but there are some things I disagree with.

I do agree that the offset G is desirable and wouldn't own another one without it.

I think the low B is largely useless.

Closed hole flutes offer more reliable tone production especially when working in the RH little finger keys, and all you really give up is the ability to perform a small number of twentieth century works that require quarter tones.

I would suggest you go to the Larry Krantz flute pages and read Robert Dick's essays on open vs. closed holes, flute scales, and other topics.

Personally I think the best layout for the majority of flute players would be closed hole, offset G, low C foot. Split E/no split E is debatable.

Thank goodness I have no one except myself to comment on my equipment choices.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Turf, she has reviewed many many flutes on You tube for I think flute center of New York. She's a paid endorser but just reviews many many flutes and demos different aspects of the flute. I would agree she's not the end all in opinions. But for now, If I had a student on a student yamaha with playing issues I would tell him/her the same thing. fix your smooth scales and emb and breathing and then look for the "next one" But thanks . I'll check out the Larry Krantz flute pages. Sounds interesting K
 

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Personally I think the best layout for the majority of flute players would be closed hole, offset G, low C foot. Split E/no split E is debatable.
What?! Only the Split E is left open to debate?! Oh, nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......

All my flutes have offset G. Two are open hole, low B; three (including alto) are closed hole, low C. I do like the difference in balance with the low B foot - I suppose I could come up with an extension and sliding mass to dial in the balance on the C-foot flutes. I like the feel of the open holes, but really have no issues with open vs closed. Pick what you like.

Why do I have more flutes than tenor saxes? They occupy less room. :shock:
 
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