[Metallising]

Hi all,

I started studing music 3 years ago, I play guitar and sometimes another rock instruments. I want to start playing sax, but I need some orientation first. At this moment I'm not hurried with scales, theory and all that stuff, I´m just looking for the best kind of sax for me and some tips for a beginner.

I had read that Alto Sax with F# is the best way to start. I would like to know what do u have to say about that.

By the way, I need gear! I have something like 550$ (400€ here - Portugal) to spend on that thing, i was looking for something like this http://www.thomann.de/thoiw10_artikel-113389.html but in fact I dont know how to evaluate a sax just looking for it.

Thanks in advance!!
(Sry for me english)

 

[king koeller]

Get a good teacher.
Call a local college, Musician's union, music store, Military band, or local
Jazz/ blues club to meet some local players who can get you started.
It's alway best to start on the Alto, however many great players started on the Clarinet, tenor or even the recorder(Tonette).
Please find a qualified teacher.
Good Luck!!
"King"

 

[zxcvbnm]

Get a used yas-23. They are great student saxes and can be had for $200-$500. High F# on a sax really doesn't matter. Where are you getting your information? Also, it would be good to invest in a good mouthpiece, like a Vandoren AL3. The best way to learn is to get a good private teacher. There's only so much you can learn from people on the internet.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

I agree, get a used student Yamaha, used. (YAS-23 is not the only model).
High F#certainly not necessary!

 

[Hernan123]

I'm just starting on sax, but I played rock guitar for some time, so I understand where you are coming from.

In my experience, I found that if you want to play sax you need to go through a lot more formal education than with guitar.

1) you need to learn the basics of the instrument (what key to press to get a note, how to blow, etc.) On guitar this is much easier: string, fret, pick and you are good to go. On sax you need a teacher for this, or you will end up doing it all wrong.

2) you need to learn the scales and other music theory stuff. Guitar is much more forgiving here: you can learn the shapes of the chords and scales and you are good. On sax, each scale has its own shape. Annoying.

Of course, you can get as theoretical as you want when studying guitar too, but I found that a little theory can take you quite far. For sax, you need a lot more theory before you can sound decent.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your music.

 

[Canadiain]

You dont even know how you are going to get on with sax, so I would advise you to rent a reputable student sax for a month or two from a local music store, and to get a teacher.

Then after a month or so, see how things go, and then if its all great, then, and only then, think about how best to spend the $500 you have left.

Buying a $500 piece of junk now might give you a bad first impression and make everything seem a lot harder than it really is. High F# makes no differnece to a beginner. Many $5000+ Selmer mkVI horns dont have it, all $200 chinese mightplay/mightnot knoock off horns do have it, so its meaningless in the big picture.

And dont ignore the theory and scales and all that...they are the building block you need to do anything else half decently.

 

[Mope]

The best way to start is get a sax and blow.

 

[Canadiain]

The best way to start is get a sax and blow.

Although that sounds terribly snappy and witty, I'm afraid that without a teacher or previous woodwind experience, a total beginner would either end up very frustrated, or worse yet, will start off ingraining bad habits right away that will take a teacher twice as long to get rid off as if they had just bitten the bullet and gone to a teacher right at the beginning to get sound fundamentals.

 

[Mope]

I have nothing against teachers and learning fundamentals and doing things the proper way, but it bugs me how everyone jumps on that "get a teacher" thing right away. If you really want to play sax, nothing will stop you. Let's not forget how many of the greatest sax players were self taught.

 

[Canadiain]

I have nothing against teachers and learning fundamentals and doing things the proper way, but it bugs me how everyone jumps on that "get a teacher" thing right away. If you really want to play sax, nothing will stop you. Let's not forget how many of the greatest sax players were self taught.

Given their economic situation its was hardly optional. And Im sure many of them were as frustrated as all hell early on too.

If you have $550, and have never played a sax, why wouldnt you rent one first and find a teacher to get you started before commiting that whole sum to what looks like a no name chinese made horn that you will never recoup half your money from if it turns out its not something you are going to take too.

Once a newbie can play a little, then they can go try various cheap horns, or decide to save longer for something for the long haul. $50 on a rental and a few lessons and then later on commiting $500+ on a decent horn with some resale potential like a used Yamaha YTS23 makes far more sense to me:?

 

[Bunny Stewart]

I like to preach using both approaches. I had a teacher when I started but he always encouraged me to mess around and just blow. There is nothing you learn when you start that can't be unlearned later. And if you see a teacher on at least a semi-regular basis (though more often is obviously better) you shouldn't do any irreperable damage.

Unless you feel like you have to play the instrument perfectly then one of the nice things about the saxophone is that there is a fair amount of imperfect technique you can get away with and still sound decent. Look at all the strange embouchures and playing positions amongst great players, most particularly amongst pop/rock/jazz/blues players.

I worry about new players being too intimidated by all the "technique" talk and getting scared away from the instrument.

 

[AndyBlackard]

I have nothing against teachers and learning fundamentals and doing things the proper way, but it bugs me how everyone jumps on that "get a teacher" thing right away. If you really want to play sax, nothing will stop you. Let's not forget how many of the greatest sax players were self taught.

Mope, I played tenor 8 years w/o ever having a lesson as a kid. I got to be adequate and played in a working band and had a blast but eventually hit a wall because I had no way around my technique problems nor did I even know what they were. And after 8 years my eccentric playing style was firmly entrenched.

Now I'm restarting on alto and have a great teacher and I'm glad. For example, he can watch me play and point out things that I cannot observe myself that have helped me tremendously in a short time. For example, I was holding my left hand too high because of the different position of the octave key on my old horn relative to my new horn. I was also "over reaching" for the high E lever when it was right under my hand and I didn't actually even need to move, also because of the differing layouts of the two horns. Every bit of extraneous motion really limits you IMHO.

I'm having a great experience re-starting with a great teacher and I'd recommend the same for you.

He can also point out the things that he had trouble with and save you the grief figuring them out on your own. For example the synchronization problem of switching between middle C-B-C-B-etc w/o the side lever and give an exercise to single out that problem and isolate and solve it. However, this forum is a godsend for free and great advice.

 

[Metallising]

Hi!

Thank you very much for all replies!

When I start thinking on playing sax, the idea was learn by myself once I learned guitar with a teacher for 3 years and that gave me some musical knowledge (theory and some improvisation skills), so now the match on sax would be just try to get the right tone.
But now, with all yours advices I'm really thinking to get a teacher, I didn't know that learning method for sax is so different from guitar. So once I got your orientation I started looking on web and I discovered a Jazz Club near (Hot Club Portugal), I'm going there tomorrow to see how I can get in the business .

Canadiain, I really understand your point of view. But it's impossible to rent a nice saxophone here, there is no store that rent instruments in Lisbon... Anyway once I'm interested and determinated on start playing sax I'm able to spend money, I really want to start playing. So there is no need to rent and than see if it's cool or not for me... that's not the question here.

I was looking for the adviced YAS 23 and I didnt found it new on sale, just found it in second hand, and those were in America (ebay).... I just can import it from Europe and there is no one selling it here.... Let's put the limit on 700$, can u tell me about the best instruments on that range?
I can go to a store and try ten diferent saxophones but because I dont know how to play I can't select the best one... for me it would be all the same, just the color change...
So once you know how best to evaluate the instrument I would like to know all sax that u can advice for my learning process in 700$ range.

Thanks in advance.
(Once again, sry for my english :| )

 

[marchingguy]

The whole teacher approach is OK, but you can also be fine with a nice book with plenty of good illustrations (mouth positions and the like)

I pretty much had to go through learning sax on my own. Someone sat with me for 30 minutes and said "This is G. This is A. This is B." And the like. I had to figure out everything else on my own.

Eventually, I developed flutter tongue (nobody else in my band can do this) and double-emboursure playing styles, also unaccounted for by the rest.

A little basics and a lot of determination can take you far.

 

[Canadiain]

I'm amazed you cant rent a sax in Lisbon...what do school kids do there? Renting for a while (doesnt have to be a good horn, just one that works well enough to take some lessons) was basically the solution to the not knowing what to buy question...with a bit of experience and with some on line research you are in a better position to make an informed purchase later on.

A book cant point out what you are doing wrong and recommend exercises to ingrain the correct techniques. If you live in the middle of nowhere and have no chance of finding a teacher, its better than nothing, but the fundamentals I learned from my teacher 25 years ago are still serving me well now. I'm not saying you need 3 years of lessons, but a couple of months at the beginning (the steep part of the "learning curve" if you like) might make a huge difference to how fast you progress, and once you have the basics, then its up to you to decide if you want to continue.

Anyway, If I had a maximum of $700 on a Tenor sax, I would be looking at a good deal on a used student Yamaha YTS 23, 25, 275?...the numbers change from time to time... or one of the more top of the line intermediate horns from the more reputable cheaper Taiwanese brands like Jupiter, Antigua Winds, Unison and the like.

Vintage horns can also be great value in that price range, although condition is important on anything you buy.

Keep some money ($1-200) in reserve to have a technician fix up any used horn...if it doesn't need any work you can spend it on a better mouthpiece.

Ebay is a lottery, as are the local classifieds and markets...Id be tempted to keep an eye on the forum marketplace, or even place a want ad and see whats offered
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=160

...you can check out the history of sellers, and get an idea if they are trustworthy. For example a yamaha 52 tenor just sold for $500ish...the 52 is a better horn than the student models..but is quite old now.

Just dont get carried away, and keep the resale value in mind if you happen to change your mind. A yamaha will have more resale potential than a no name horn, the Taiwanese brands are at least recognised, but dont pay a premium for them, and vintage (mostly older US made) horns are a market to themselves. Dont buy a brand no one recognises, its will be extremely hard to sell on later if you either quit or want to move up to a pro grade horn.

 

[zxcvbnm]

I think he wants an alto. Anyways, the second hand yas-23 will be your best bet. Why can't you get it from ebay? Also, you can put a request up in the marketplace here for one.

 

[Canadiain]

The picture in the first link he posted was a Tenor...

ebay is a lottery, especially for a new player buying sight unseen. Having said that I've got away with it a few times, and if its cheap enough its worth paying the shipping, assuming you can find a buyer who will ship to your location given the paypal protection policies / general level of hassle associated with it. A lot of US ebayers wont ship outside the US.

 

[Hernan123]

Another option: don't buy anything, just go take a lesson with a sax teacher. Tell him that you don't have a horn and if he can recommend some store or knows of a private seller. Some teachers will accept students without an instrument for the first couple of lessons.

I did something similar back in the day, and discovered I was way under budget to buy even the cheapest acceptable sax

 

[Metallising]

To start lessons on the Jazz Club I need to have the saxophone, and it's impossible to rent any instrument, that is not a usual thing that stores do here. I'm looking for a good sax to start, there is probably a standard for beginners, like there is the Fender Squier Stratocaster for all newbies on guitar.
I didn't find YAS 23 but I found YAS 275, is it good? New, it costs 1100$, is that a good deal? The cheapest Jupiter I found is about the same price, maybe Yamaha is better, and I agree very much with the question of resale (I never sold any instrument, but never know what can happen).
I was looking too for second hand saxophones on Europe, but the prince change just something like 200$ less, I prefer to pay those 200$ and get it new... in Portugal there is no one selling saxophones, I guess that people here just play folk instruments :|. If i'm going ahead for a YAS should I keep in mind buy a mouthpiece? For that price the original one sould be nice...
The link that u post is about people selling on USA, I can't import from America because the taxes.

About the question of Alto or Tenor... in fact I dont know which is best for me, where there is the big diference between them? I read that Alto is more usual for those who are learning the instrument... what do u advice for me?

Thank you very much for your patience.
Cheers!

 

[zxcvbnm]

The yas-275 is very good and is a slightly improved version of the yas-23 . For that price it's a pretty good deal. But, like I said, around here you can get yas-23's for $200-$500 so.....
The mouthpiece that comes with the yas-23 is okay but not the best. If you want a better one, I would get a vandoren AL3. If you will be playing jazz, get a meyer 5 or 6, though. Most people start on alto, but there's really no difference, so choose the one you like better (tenor costs more though).
(btw, the yas-23/275 is the standard for beginners on sax).