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I need some help with endurance and fast!!

7K views 44 replies 27 participants last post by  Qalina 
#1 Ā·
Hey all, I'm a high school rookie. I've been playing alto sax for a few weeks now, and the school band starts in a few weeks. I want to join, but I don't have the endurance to play long pieces one after another. Whenever I practice for a few minutes, my lips get really numb, so much so that I can't even wrap them around my mouthpiece anymore. What kinds of exercises could I do to improve my endurance? I don't think my embouchure is the issue, but I'll have an experienced peer judge me anyways.

Thank you in advance!!
 
#2 Ā·
Long tones, followed by more long tones!

In case you havenā€™t been introduced to this concept yet it basically means playing a long steady note, concentrating on maintaining a full tone and steady pitch. It is a bit like any form of physical exercise. You push yourself as far as you can each day and gradually increase your strength and endurance. Maybe ask your instructor for more details. I know you are in a hurry but donā€™t rush it!

Bill
 
#3 Ā·
Long tones, followed by more long tones!

In case you havenā€™t been introduced to this concept yet it basically means playing a long steady note, concentrating on maintaining a full tone and steady pitch. It is a bit like any form of physical exercise. You push yourself as far as you can each day and gradually increase your strength and endurance. Maybe ask your instructor for more details. I know you are in a hurry but donā€™t rush it!

Bill
Thanks Bill, I'll get to practicing right away!
 
#4 Ā·
Muscles failing is normal.

Think about proper technique while playing. Do not bite down or cheat in any way. Play only until tired. Then stop. Better to play 15 minutes 4 times a day rather than for an hour with your embouchure trashed for 45 minutes of it. Work every day, but do not over work.



Also



Good luck!
 
#5 Ā·
You don't build up endurance 'fast'. It takes time. Sometimes a LONG time.
As mentioned above, play 15 minutes, rest. Play 15 minutes, rest. Rinse and repeat. Add 3-5 minutes to each session after every 3-5 days.
Keep this schedule until you can play for around an hour before your embouchure starts to feel tired.
Slow and steady helps to prevent bad habits that will bite you in the butt later.
It wouldn't hurt to have a saxophone specific teacher see/hear you play just to make sure you're doing stuff 'correctly'.
What mouthpiece and reeds are you using? They could be part of your problem.
 
#6 Ā·
OK, I've got a few questions here. Your school band starts in April? In the last quarter of the year, is this because of Covid? How have you been learning up to now, like what are you practicing and who have you been getting instructions from?

Most of your peers have probably been playing since grade school so you have a lot to catch up on if you want to play in band. I would suggest private instruction with a credible saxophone player. You most certainly can learn music theory from any good music teacher but if you really want to learn the saxophone you need someone that plays that instrument.

You think your embouchure is good (and maybe it is) but if it's incorrect you are causing yourself a disservice, along with anything else you learn wrong. I'm not saying any of this to discourage you. I'm just trying to stress the importance of getting qualified instruction. You won't believe how quickly you can advance with the right teacher.
 
#7 Ā·
I think bandmommy is on to something . . . I immediately thought about stiff reeds as I read through your opening post. If you are like a lot of young players, you probably selected a reed based on what others around you were playing. You may want to reduce the strength of the reeds you are playing.

AND, you may be using a mouthpiece with a more open tip than what your embouchure can control. Those two things may cause your embouchure to tire more quickly. DAVE
 
#8 Ā·
I think bandmommy is on to something . . . I immediately thought about stiff reeds as I read through your opening post. If you are like a lot of young players, you probably selected a reed based on what others around you were playing. You may want to reduce the strength of the reeds you are playing.

AND, you may be using a mouthpiece with a more open tip than what your embouchure can control. Those two things may cause your embouchure to tire more quickly. DAVE
Which reminds of the original post [emphasis added], "Whenever I practice for a FEW MINUTES, MY LIPS GET REALLY NUMB, so much so that I can't even wrap them around my mouthpiece anymore."

As you point it out I am sure that you recognize that (and my opinion that), your lips should not be getting numb within minutes. I believe the other writers are giving you suggestions as to why that may be happening, and suggesting getting help from teachers who presumably would help address that. I would think that resolving that symptom is your first goal. If you consult with your experienced peer make sure that s/he can get that resolved. Otherwise consult with your teacher. While the numbness effectively hinders your endurance that is not a breathing specific endurance issue. It is a problematic symptom developing that must be resolved so that you can continue to "wrap them around my mouthpiece."
 
#11 Ā· (Edited)
I most sincerely suggest reading and re-reading and re-reading bandmommy's post above. No End of determination is gonna' get you the result you desire. From my perspective, based upon your post, you are far more than likely gonna' quickly establish some very difficult to unlearn bad habits which will significantly impede both your progress and enjoyment. Join the band next year - and enjoy your journey.
 
#13 Ā·
What bandmommy said. Building up muscles takes time. But please be careful: When I was about your age, I tried to gain strength and embrochure muscles too fast, rehearsing too long without pause, trying to blow reeds that were way too hard for me. As result I hurt my lip in a way that I now have to live with scar tissue inside my lip and it's almost every time I play that my lip above this scar tissue gets wound again. My doctor gave me some special scar ointment and it helps if I use it before playing. If I forget to do it, my lip gets hurt again. So take your time!
 
#15 Ā·
OP needs an in person tutor to assess the cause of this "numbness", which I took to be a sort of common cramping, or muscle fatigue. If it is really a numbness, then, as wiser readers have pointed out already, some nasty stuff is probably going on between face and mpc. He says that a peer will do an assessment. Hope that will be enough.
 
#17 Ā·
I would ask your future band director for a few pointers on your embouchure or try to find an instructor for at least a couple of lessons. There shouldn't be a lot of tension in your embouchure if your reed strength and mouthpiece are appropriate. You still might find it challenging to play 15 minutes but it seems unusual that your embouchure would get numb. Perhaps you are biting which is suppressing blood supply to your lower lip? Still, line up a lesson or two post haste. The can also double check your kit to make sure they are appropriate for your skill level.
 
#19 Ā·
I don't have the endurance to play long pieces one after another.
I wouldn't worry too much about this. Band practice is lots of starting and stopping, the teacher working with different sections on different parts of the songs, so there will be a good part of the time when you will just be sitting there doing nothing. The only time you'll be playing pieces one after another is at a concert, and if your school is like most that won't be until the end of the school year.
 
#20 Ā·
The exercise to strengthen the muscles used to form the embouchure given by Larry Teal in "The Art of Saxophone Playing" is to smile then whistle about 50 times, rest and repeat. This book is also an excellent reference for anyone learning to play the saxophone. A way to practice your part without blowing the saxophone is what I call "sing and finger" or "say and finger" in which you finger each note and sing or say it's name in rhythm. If you are very familiar with the names of the notes, another variation is to say "tu" or "tah". You can do this silently to yourself if doing so in a group would be embarrassing. ;)
 
#36 Ā·
LOL hope it comes with a manual on how to learn whistling, I could never manage, I whistle inwards, but I
Does anyone do that? As big as my nose is, I cannot quickly take in enough air to sustain my playing.
depends on the length of the phrase, I guess, but I read a famous piano player who once said that it's only hard to play very fast very loud and for a long time simultaneously, and it's not often the case doing all three. There are micro rests everywhere, that's when you momentarily relax and breathe. At least with the piano you can breather whenever you like (but you still end up doing it with the music, actually). Human attention span is only 8 seconds, take a nap in between, I reckon. a REAL concentration is exhausting and can only be done occasionally.
 
#22 Ā·
It's not 'numbness' in the clinical sense - just embouchure fatigue most likely from a reed too hard for a beginner or possibly a more open mouthpiece than a beginner should have.
Some good thoughts above but first, although long tones provide the fastest embouchure improvement, it will only get so much better by April which is nearly upon us.
Get a free tuner app for your phone or some other kind of tuner. Long tones are not customarily done just by holding a tone - the point is to play it louder and softer without going out of tune - slow waves, not fast changes. As you progress you can add in bending notes slowly up and down to the next half-step. At some point you can begin to use vibrato but not all the time - and vary the width, duration and speed of the oscillations. So you can see there is nothing simple about long tones.
15 minutes at a time for a beginner is way too long - at this point you're not even going to be able to do 15 minutes. More like 5 minutes a session, but you can have multiple sessions a day.
When you begin to lose control of your embouchure, stop and stretch your mouth, like yawning. You can feel the blood returning to the muscles and you can go again.
Your embouchure is possibly incorrect; teeth on top, lip over lower teeth on the bottom - but not too far - practice putting the lip more 'out', like saying 'ooh'.
Post the make and number of the mouthpiece. Even with a beginner's mouthpiece (C*or #3 to #4) you should use a soft reed, like a 1 1/2.
 
#23 Ā·
Bottom line: If the OP has no endurance, it's from a lack of practice time. Endurance comes with practice, and so does a lot of other technique. OP needs to hit the shed regularly and often - and spend enough time to develop endurance (and tone, and air support, and control, and...).
 
#25 Ā·
It's simple really. You'll need 2 pounds of beach sand, 3 cups distilled water, a feral cat, an electric drill, 14 Vanilla Wafers, a red bandanna (No other color will work), 40' of speaker wire, and a 12volt battery. Once you've acquired the above and are ready to proceed, PM me and I'll tell you how it works...

PS you also need an active PayPay account or Venmo.
 
#27 Ā·
Hey all, I'm a high school rookie. I've been playing alto sax for a few weeks now, and the school band starts in a few weeks.
A few weeks. When it comes to learning to play a musical instrument, a few weeks is no more than the 'blink of an eye.' Even with a good instructor and a solid practice regimen, you'll need to be patient and put in the time it takes. Maybe times have changed since I was in high school (a long time ago!), but back then I can't imagine anyone getting into the school band with only a few weeks on their instrument. That's a bit surprising to me. If you are expecting to pick up a saxophone and be able to play at any level of competence in a matter of weeks, or months for that matter, you'll be sorely disappointed. This is not to discourage you, but rather to give you a 'reality check' so you won't fall into the trap of thinking you can do this "fast." You'll discover this sooner or later, but better to be aware of it right from the start.
 
#28 Ā·
Your point is well taken, but we don't know what background in music the student has already. That can make a big difference in how fast he progresses---especially after the fundamentals of tone production are mastered. A story from when I was teaching 6th grade beginning band. A clarinet student on the second day came up before class and said he needed another book. I asked him if he lost his, and he said no, I can play everything in book I. After class I had him play parts of the last two pages, and indeed he mastered the entire book in one day. I came to find out he had studied piano for several years with a top teacher at a local university and was a very advanced player for his age.
 
#31 Ā·
Take the neck off the horn, affix the mouthpiece, and just blow through the mouthpiece and neck for about 15 minutes each day. Try long tones that way. Start your practice with that. I suspect several things may be in play here. Your embouchure is too tight, your reed may be too stiff (try 2 1/2 or even 2 if you already have a 2 1/2); your mouthpiece could be too wide (i.e. air opening). You could be blowing too hard, which tenses up your whole body including your mouth. That's why the mouthpiece/neck exercise might help. Don't bite down too hard either top or bottom lip, but definitely keep a seal going around the reed. Finally, it just takes time. It's like how your hands/fingers feel when you first start playing guitar. They hurt.
 
#32 Ā·
... I'm a high school rookie. I've been playing alto sax for a few weeks now, and the school band starts in a few weeks. I want to join, but I don't have the endurance to play long pieces one after another. ...
Make sure you join the marching band. That'll build your strength faster than anything. You'll be thinking about marching and reading, which will distract you from focusing solely on your mouth muscles. If at some point when you get tired, you can fake it and concentrate on the march step routines.

When I started playing at the start of my sophomore year in high school, it was concert band and marching band. Within a few months, I was blowing sax fairly well, and was a certified honkophonist. I couldn't read music worth a damn, but that's another story.
 
#33 Ā·
make sure your mouthpiece is a student one and your reed is soft enough. Carry your piece with you in your pocket(with a piece cap) and practice wherever you can-in the toilet, in the traffic lights (if you are driving), in the bus, etc. Most of all-you should appear keen enough to join, i think. The endurance will come, but if your band leader sees that you are KEEN, they might let you join even if you aren't up to speed yet. Make sure your lips have pressure from side to side, not from top to bottom. Your remark that your lips get numb makes me think something is wrong, as the most pain for me was underneath the lip. Ask a pro to assess your embouchure while looking at you playing closely. But the bottom line-yeah, it takes time-you don't go to the gym for a week hoping for a FAST solution. Your lip muscles are still muscles. Good luck!
 
#34 Ā·
Another thought-are you holding onto your piece with your lips between the phrases, when you can actually relax and breathe? You only need to seal with your lips while you play, in between phrases you breather the air and just hold the piece without the actual muscles contracting to seal it. Sealing with your lips at all times and breathing through your nose would make anyone's lips tired in minutes. Playing is a combination of contracting your lips and relaxing them in pauses (as someone who also playing the trumpet, you learn this fast or die LOL)
 
#35 Ā·
Another thought-are you holding onto your piece with your lips between the phrases, when you can actually relax and breathe? You only need to seal with your lips while you play, in between phrases you breather the air and just hold the piece without the actual muscles contracting to seal it. Sealing with your lips at all times and breathing through your nose would make anyone's lips tired in minutes.
Does anyone do that? As big as my nose is, I cannot quickly take in enough air to sustain my playing.
 
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