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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have always loved the lushness and the velvety quality of subtone, since I have been a big fan of Ben Webster, Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins since the day I started playing. However many players do not use subtone on baritone. but it sounds amazing on it, due to the low register. In this vlog I shared some studies that I like to do very slowly, as a meditation, hence the title zen.
Despite the video cover shows a tenor horn I played baritone in the video, my trusty '45 Conn12M.
Hope you enjoy the video, enable english subs in the menu if you need.

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It's a very informative video. Unfortunately I rarely find myself in a playing situation that allows for subtoning on bari. I don't typically practice altissimo on bari for the same reason.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sounds very, Mulligan-ish. I've only tried bari a couple of times over the years, but I can't imagine it is easy to subtone low notes. I play alto with a constant subtone, that's my sound!
Thanks Reet, on baritone it is harder than on other saxes, because you need more air support.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's a very informative video. Unfortunately I rarely find myself in a playing situation that allows for subtoning on bari. I don't typically practice altissimo on bari for the same reason.
Thank you @KeithL I am mainly a baritone player and I play in different contexts, from R&B to big band, jazz quartet, duo with piano or guitar,ecc. If I play a ballad in a jazz club I use subtone a lot. It depends on the situazione, As you pointed. Regarding altissimo I found it fascinating on baritone, because it is a rounder sound than alto.
 

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I have always loved the lushness and the velvety quality of subtone, since I have been a big fan of Ben Webster, Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins since the day I started playing. However many players do not use subtone on baritone. but it sounds amazing on it, due to the low register. In this vlog I shared some studies that I like to do very slowly, as a meditation, hence the title zen.
Despite the video cover shows a tenor horn I played baritone in the video, my trusty '45 Conn12M.
Hope you enjoy the video, enable english subs in the menu if you need.

View:


Nice video. I also really do like subtone on baritone. You don't hear many players using it. Serge Chaloff was one of the few baritone players who did.

For some reason it is much more difficult than subtone on the smaller saxes but I found it easier when I started using a bigger tip opening mouthpiece... also easier on the low Bb baritone than a low A.

These two videos are on a Conn Chu 220xxx with a 9* No USA Otto Link.



This one is on a 1980's low A Yanigisawa with 7* Link.


*Edit. Sorry
@bb. I don't want to hijack your thread. I hope you don't mind me posting these. Thanks very much for your blog video.
 

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As a longtime (hobby) baritone and tenor doubler, I can confirm it is less obvious on the big horn. Maybe not more difficult "per se", but related to the lower range, the lesser projection of the baritone, the fact that one usually avoids too big open mouthpieces, it comes less naturally. If you spend time to chose an appropriate mp/reed combo, and work on it, it is absolutely doable and very nice. Serge Chaloff comes to one's mind, but if you listen carefully to someone like Nick Brignola, you'll realize his articulation often includes nice "clouds" of subtone. Clearly my favorite big horn player when it comes to tone shaping and articulation.
 

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Nice video. I also really do like subtone on baritone. You don't hear many players using it. Serge Chaloff was one of the few baritone players who did.

For some reason it is much more difficult than subtone on the smaller saxes but I found it easier when I started using a bigger tip opening mouthpiece... also easier on the low Bb baritone than a low A.

These two videos are on a Conn Chu 220xxx with a 9* No USA Otto Link.



This one is on a 1980's low A Yanigisawa with 7* Link.

I also find that sub toning is easier for me on Baritone and perhaps also tenor.
But I spend most of my time on baritone.
And also with a pretty open piece .125 Gottsu.
I can understand how it is not something used on a regular basis in many situations.
But I would also agree that it is quite underused in situations where it would be very suitable.
I'd prefer to hear subtoning over altissimo pretty much anytime.
Altissimo always sounds forced and like it's painful to me.
Except when played by a few.
 

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Nice video. I also really do like subtone on baritone. You don't hear many players using it. Serge Chaloff was one of the few baritone players who did.

For some reason it is much more difficult than subtone on the smaller saxes but I found it easier when I started using a bigger tip opening mouthpiece... also easier on the low Bb baritone than a low A.

These two videos are on a Conn Chu 220xxx with a 9* No USA Otto Link.



This one is on a 1980's low A Yanigisawa with 7* Link.

Beautiful playing LiAm, this is really inspiring, thanks for sharing. :cool:
 

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I have always loved the lushness and the velvety quality of subtone, since I have been a big fan of Ben Webster, Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins since the day I started playing. However many players do not use subtone on baritone. but it sounds amazing on it, due to the low register. In this vlog I shared some studies that I like to do very slowly, as a meditation, hence the title zen.
Despite the video cover shows a tenor horn I played baritone in the video, my trusty '45 Conn12M.
Hope you enjoy the video, enable english subs in the menu if you need.

View:

Soooo nice ! I can only congratulate you for the nice playing, and join your opinion about subtoning on the big horn.
E sempre un piacere di guardare ii tuoi video.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks to everybody for watching and for your replies.
@LiAm84 Whoo, great playing and feeling. I am a big fan of Chaloff, and I guess we share a similar tone concept. You did not hijack anything, we are hear to listen and to share opinions and videos. Thanks for adding your links. I liked the Conn more, but you sounded beautiful on both Conn and Yanagisawa.
@dexdex Thanks for your words. Brignola was an amazing player with stunning techinque, with a Breckerish approach to baritone. However I prefer a darker and cavernous tone like Mulligan and Chaloff, but of course this does not mean that Brignola was a fantastic player. We all have a different sound in our minds...
@B Flat maybe this is personal but I always preferred low baffled mouthpieces over high baffled ones. High baffle adds power with a less fatiguing air support, but to me at expenses of body. Of course there are players like Ronnie Cuber who used baffled mouthpieces with great results, but I lean towards a Chaloff/Mulligan kind of tone more. I reached the best results with an Otto link vintage slant tone edge '115 and a Vandoren blue 3 reed. I have never tried a Gottsu, they are supposed to be very Otto Link inspired, right?
 

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I got so confused when watching the video. Your text here was English but then clicking and it is in a different language. I had forgot I had CC on and thankful it seems to have captured correctly. I love the bari and that beautiful tone!
 

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Thanks to everybody for watching and for your replies.
@LiAm84 Whoo, great playing and feeling. I am a big fan of Chaloff, and I guess we share a similar tone concept. You did not hijack anything, we are hear to listen and to share opinions and videos. Thanks for adding your links. I liked the Conn more, but you sounded beautiful on both Conn and Yanagisawa.
@dexdex Thanks for your words. Brignola was an amazing player with stunning techinque, with a Breckerish approach to baritone. However I prefer a darker and cavernous tone like Mulligan and Chaloff, but of course this does not mean that Brignola was a fantastic player. We all have a different sound in our minds...
@B Flat maybe this is personal but I always preferred low baffled mouthpieces over high baffled ones. High baffle adds power with a less fatiguing air support, but to me at expenses of body. Of course there are players like Ronnie Cuber who used baffled mouthpieces with great results, but I lean towards a Chaloff/Mulligan kind of tone more. I reached the best results with an Otto link vintage slant tone edge '115 and a Vandoren blue 3 reed. I have never tried a Gottsu, they are supposed to be very Otto Link inspired, right?
Yes the Gottsu is very Link STM like.
If you like Otto Link STM's on Baritone, I'd imagine that you would also like the Gottsu baritone piece.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@SaxJ thanks, I am happy that you enjoyed the video. I don't know what happening with the subtitles. Maybe you enabled the Italian subs (the original language). If you scroll the menu you can find also english subtiles, let me know..

@mascio Thanks for the link. I must confessa that I didn't know Bon Gordon. Let's a great player, with great tone, and a true swinger. I want to dig bis music more!
 

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It can be fun playing some subtone on bari, but I never end up doing so at a gig or anything. If I'm doing a bari gig it is usually a big band or r&b or rock type gig.
 
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