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Looks kinda 40s/50s European.

Pretty wild, especially things like the ornamentation on the bell brace foot and the bow guard.

Looks like a fork Eb, too.

Can you tell how it plays?
 

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Looks kinda 40s/50s European.

Pretty wild, especially things like the ornamentation on the bell brace foot and the bow guard.

Looks like a fork Eb, too.

Can you tell how it plays?
It's on the way to me now. No idea if it plays at all yet...
 

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The Eb/C guards look like more recent additions. The bell key guards look original.

After a lot of web browsing I believe all the key guards are original. I guess it will become more apparent when I have the horn in hand.

I wish there was more information about these horns out there. It's really hard to come by, but based on all the features of this horn I think
it was a top of the line or close to it for a stencil.
 

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After a lot of web browsing I believe all the key guards are original.

I wish there was more information about these horns out there.
1) yes they are original. I have refurbed at least a half-dozen Hammerschmidts, those are original C and Eb guards.

2) did you miss the link I posted above ? Helen at Bassicsax actually has done a fair amount of research on these....probably the best online resource available.
 

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1) yes they are original. I have refurbed at least a half-dozen Hammerschmidts, those are original C and Eb guards.

2) did you miss the link I posted above ? Helen at Bassicsax actually has done a fair amount of research on these....probably the best online resource available.
I did follow the link and there was some great information. Just nothing on this specific stencil.

Having refurbished that many what are your thoughts on them? I really like the looks of the horn and I may drop the cash for a refurb.
 

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As everyone else has said this is one of the 5000 horns made by Hammerschmidt in around 30 years ( despite their decidedly art deco look they started production in the ’50 and terminated in the ’80) . The company still exists although they no longer make saxophones . I have contacted them in the past and they were, although late, responsive.


Kontakt & Impressum

Verantwortlich für den Inhalt
Karl Hammerschmidt & Söhne GmbH
Industriestr. 6
D-89331 Burgau
Germany

Geschäftsführer: Klaus Hammerschmidt

E-Mail: [email protected]



As far as model this was probably the best that they were capable of producing with all the trimmings and decorations. All the Guards are original (including the one which looks like a cat), no later addition. The ones with metal sheet keyguards were very late and considerably cheaper.

AS FOR THIS PARTICULAR HORN

The damage of the bow is the most preoccupying. Since this is not a silver plated model (I have only had them in Silver plate and one, late model, in nickel) the repair will burn all the remaining lacquer there. It will show, even if one were to go crazy and part relacquer it. A complete relacquer job can be done but, on its own, it would burn a hole in your pocket even larger than the one that you will have to have this completely refurbished.

One needs to remove the fin, take the dent out the bow (one of the hardest places) and then solder back the fin after removing its dent too (very difficult and especially so in this model because of the texturized finish there).

Bow dents don’t really affect the playing much but are definitely a serious problem when it comes to value.

The value of any Hammerschmidt is (unfortunately) very relative because the market awareness and consequent demand is very limited.

I have had 4 of them two of which were bought by Helen (one without a neck). The last two ones (a Matched alto and tenor pair) that I had failed to sell for at least 3 years ( they were both completely overhauled) and I have exchanged them at a loss. One is still at a friend’s antiques shop.

One of the problems about value is their supposed problems with intonation (which affects, if at all, only the latest, cheaper models, the ones with the sheet metal guards). These intonation problems ( if they are really there) were probably a feature of the ’80 models but of course now that they are on internet they have tainted the reputation. I come across them often enough but I no longer buy them because of the difficulties in reselling them.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?241834-Hammerschmidt-intonation-problems

Refurbishing this horn may cost you more than what you would be able to recuperate by selling it. Shame that the engraving of this doesn’t feature the spectacular “ man on the anvil hammering notes” which is so typical of Hammerschmidt.
 

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Thank you very much Milandro! That is a wealth of information and just what I was looking for.

If I were to invest in having this overhauled it would be for a keeper and not to sell. That being said I would just leave the dented bow alone. I paid very little for this horn
and was hoping it might be worth something due to the ornate work on the bell and braces.

I need to get it in hand to see how much work it needs...
 

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The damage of the bow is the most preoccupying. Since this is not a silver plated model (I have only had them in Silver plate and one, late model, in nickel) the repair will burn all the remaining lacquer there. It will show, even if one were to go crazy and part relacquer it. A complete relacquer job can be done but, on its own, it would burn a hole in your pocket even larger than the one that you will have to have this completely refurbished.

One needs to remove the fin, take the dent out the bow (one of the hardest places) and then solder back the fin after removing its dent too (very difficult and especially so in this model because of the texturized finish there).
Actually the damage is quite minor and very common. One need not remove the guard at all. Thus no torch required.

A tech can access the area with a dent ball attached to a rod (rod inserted into C hole) and with some well-placed hammer blows to the rod the dent will pop back up, along with the bowguard. Then some smoothing of the bow with perhaps a magnetic dent ball system.

It will not look 100%, but bow geometry will be back and it will look 80%+, and remaining inconsistencies would be only something noticeable to someone who is keenly looking for it.

Thank you very much Milandro! That is a wealth of information and just what I was looking for.

If I were to invest in having this overhauled it would be for a keeper and not to sell. That being said I would just leave the dented bow alone. I paid very little for this horn
and was hoping it might be worth something due to the ornate work on the bell and braces.

I need to get it in hand to see how much work it needs...
IMHO, if it doesn't play decently, have a tech do some tweaks at first to get it speaking OK. Then you can properly assess it for yourself.

The sonic paradigm is vintage German - Keilwerth, Kohlert, B&S etc. Very big, wide, dark-toned.

Some people like these, some people do not. They are very unique sorta horns.

Their market values back in the days (when the world economies were still fooling people and making 'em believe things were stable) these fetched pretty good $....like $800 for a refurbished alto.

Today, where obscure makes do not ping impulse buyers like they used to.....it could perhaps fetch $500-550, refurbed. So not a great 'flip' candidate these days.
 

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I have had that kind of damaged addressed several times and they never completely removed the dent which makes the sax unsellable ( for me).
 

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I have had that kind of damaged addressed several times and they never completely removed the dent which makes the sax unsellable ( for me).
In my experience buyers are fine with having a slight irregularity (particularly on a vintage horn) as long as the bow geometry is clean and it isn't really noticeable.

As you mention, it is a big affair to unsolder the guard then resolder it on (more from standpoint of loss of lacquer and its obvious aesthetic consequences, but also from a repair price standpoint). One of those judgment calls....
 

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we probably dal with different buyers
 

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In my experience buyers are fine with having a slight irregularity (particularly on a vintage horn) as long as the bow geometry is clean and it isn't really noticeable.

As you mention, it is a big affair to unsolder the guard then resolder it on (more from standpoint of loss of lacquer and its obvious aesthetic consequences, but also from a repair price standpoint). One of those judgment calls....
It may be possible to remove the dent with a magnetic dent ball, the trick for this type of damage is to stuff something into the bow to confine the ball, i.e. prevent it from moving along the bow and then use the magnet to pull the ball up against the dent. If you use a rubber door stop to prevent the magnet from jamming into the horn you should be able to pull this out in 5-10 minutes and finish by rolling out the minor dings. It's not something you will necessarily master on the first try but with a little bit of practice it becomes a very versatile and efficient way to remove dents. Different horns and different types of dents will result in different mileage of course.
 

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Gee, is THAT the dent on the bow y'all are all concerned about? I'd just play the thing as is, myself. Especially for a horn worth $500 or so.
 
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