[tonyh]

I decided to take the advise given here on SOTW to listen to everything you can get your hands on, and I came across john Coltrane's-Meditations-1966 and Interstellar Space-1967 and also a couple of tracks from live In Paris 1965

Well I tried, I really did, I started to listen to each track but just couldn't finish them. I wonder if these were big hits for him back then, maybe everyone at the time was taking the same stuff he was so it all sounded good

So whats the verdict on these albums, is it just me, am I missing something, I came into the world in 67, so maybe its the whole 60's thing I missed, I'm too scared to listen to them again in case I start to hear voices.

 

[RootyTootoot]

hi tony: Just try something else for listening! There isn't a rule that says you have to like Coltrane if you play the sax. But you may notice that many people do find this music very beautiful, even when stone cold sober .

Another thing to bear in mind is that Coltrane developed to the stage where he was playing that kind of stuff. I assume that you would enjoy Coltrane's earlier recordings. If you dismiss his later stuff out of hand you are really saying that he kind of "lost it", for whatever reason. That might be a rather dodgy assumption, because there is absolutely no evidence that such a thing happened. If you really want to say "I know better than John Coltrane what sounds good on sax" then good luck to you, but don't expect many supporters!! It may be that when you've listened to more music you'll come back to these recordings and enjoy them. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Jonathan C.]

I would suggest Cannonball, he was never as crazy as Train. Also try Trains ballads. My Favorite things, was done on Soprano and sounds amazing.

 

[Mope]

...There isn't a rule that says you have to like Coltrane if you play the sax. ...

I thought there was.

 

[Isle of Jazz]

Don't feel bad; they're definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

Coltrane's later musical development remains somewhat puzzling to some of us. I have no doubt, however, that he was absolutely sincere and we know that he'd paid his dues (and then some) - it wasn't like some neophyte splattering paint on a canvas and claiming to be the next Jackson Pollack.

The one time I saw Coltrane live was in this period; I remember being moved at the time but I never listen to this part of his output, while I've worn out Giant Steps, Blue Train, and Soul Trane.

I think that Coltrane's "spirituality" (for want of a better term) was propelling him toward an all-inclusive pantheism where colors and sounds were seen as aspects of divinity. The civil rights movement at the time had emotions worked up to a fever level. Ornette, Mingus, and Sun Ra had been pushing the formal boundaries of jazz for some time and many younger players were thrilled that a musician of Coltrane's stature would, in effect, give his blessing to the experimental "New Thing" and "free jazz" movement.

Ultimately, not too many followed Coltrane's direction - Pharaoh Sanders and Sonny Fortune come to mind - within a few years Miles electric fusion style had pretty much become the leading edge and when the next jazz reformation period arrived with the Marsalis brothers, it was the Coltrane of Giant Steps who was resurrected.

Sometimes I think that jazz instrumentation (and the jazz tradition) was sub-optimal for the sort of sound Coltrane was pursuing in his late period, and that the people who really took the baton, years later, were the world/ambient/electronic musicians.

 

[pc1234]

Late period Trane might be considered jumping in the metaphysical-deep-end of the pool for a beginner. Try "Giant Steps" or "Blue Train" instead for starters, or anything Trane did as part of the Miles Davis Quintet/Sextet. And for other great tenor sounds, check out Dexter Gordon and Coleman Hawkins. This is just the tip of the iceberg, but should get you going. Don't dismiss Trane just yet.

 

[saintsday]

For the other end of the Coltrane spectrum, try this http://www.amazon.com/John-Coltrane...0811101?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188737644&sr=8-2
In a few years, try this http://www.amazon.com/Love-Supreme-...0811101?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188737748&sr=8-1
Please report back.

 

[Dog Pants]

You might also want to rid yourself of the idea that late Train is somehow "more advanced," or in any way above and beyond his earlier output. Or that being into "late Train," makes you a more mature and sophisticated saxophonist.

 

[pc1234]

Don't feel bad; they're definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

Coltrane's later musical development remains somewhat puzzling to some of us. I have no doubt, however, that he was absolutely sincere and we know that he'd paid his dues (and then some) - it wasn't like some neophyte splattering paint on a canvas and claiming to be the next Jackson Pollack.

The one time I saw Coltrane live was in this period; I remember being moved at the time but I never listen to this part of his output, while I've worn out Giant Steps, Blue Train, and Soul Trane.

I think that Coltrane's "spirituality" (for want of a better term) was propelling him toward an all-inclusive pantheism where colors and sounds were seen as aspects of divinity. The civil rights movement at the time had emotions worked up to a fever level. Ornette, Mingus, and Sun Ra had been pushing the formal boundaries of jazz for some time and many younger players were thrilled that a musician of Coltrane's stature would, in effect, give his blessing to the experimental "New Thing" and "free jazz" movement.

Ultimately, not too many followed Coltrane's direction - Pharaoh Sanders and Sonny Fortune come to mind - within a few years Miles electric fusion style had pretty much become the leading edge and when the next jazz reformation period arrived with the Marsalis brothers, it was the Coltrane of Giant Steps who was resurrected.

Sometimes I think that jazz instrumentation (and the jazz tradition) was sub-optimal for the sort of sound Coltrane was pursuing in his late period, and that the people who really took the baton, years later, were the world/ambient/electronic musicians.

Very sensitively and intelligently put, shotgun - you should be a jazz writer (or maybe you are? )

 

[Isle of Jazz]

Aw thanks, pc1234 — I'd love to be but I'm not — that's why this forum is so wonderful, I get to air and share ideas I've been mulling over for years. (I'm an old Hudson Valley boy myself, btw, grew up near Haverstraw.)

 

[pc1234]

Aw thanks, pc1234 - I'd love to be but I'm not - that's why this forum is so wonderful, I get to air and share ideas I've been mulling over for years. (I'm an old Hudson Valley boy myself, btw, grew up near Haverstraw.)

Well, keep 'em coming then - I enjoyed reading that. And hey, I'm sure Downbeat needs a roving reporter in Maine...

 

[gary]

You might also want to rid yourself of the idea that late Train is somehow "more advanced," or in any way above and beyond his earlier output. Or that being into "late Train," makes you a more mature and sophisticated saxophonist.

You might. But that would just be so wrong.

Couldn't resist. Just like I can't resist noting that I would be more inclined to call Wynton's "reformation" a "retro-mation". :twisted:

But good comments from all. I just add that I agree with just about everything that's been said, tony. Start maybe with "Blue Train" or Trane's work on "Kind of Blue".

 

[Reedsplinter]

You might. But that would just be so wrong.

Couldn't resist. Just like I can't resist noting that I would be more inclined to call Wynton's "reformation" a "retro-mation". :twisted:

But good comments from all. I just add that I agree with just about everything that's been said, tony. Start maybe with "Blue Train" or Trane's work on "Kind of Blue".

I agree wholeheartedly with Gary. But the album, I believe, is "Blue Trane." An Amazon search for the other will lead you into strange territory.

 

[gary]

I agree wholeheartedly with Gary. But the album, I believe, is "Blue Trane." An Amazon search for the other will lead you into strange territory.

:shock:

 

[DukeCity]

No, the album is indeed called "Blue Train"

Amazon search

 

[leonard c. Smith]

HI
I had the same experience with Train. I have been a Jazz buff since my teens andused to see the great "west coast players at the lighthouse in Hermosa. Then I first heard Train it was the same as when I first heard Ornette "what the f... is this?" Then I heard MY FAVORITE THINGS" and now I understand why Coltrane is GOD. Lenny Chavez

 

[Jonathan C.]

My Favorite things is probably the best Trane song. I have never heard a Soprano played that way before. Kenny G just sounds like a Bad Oboe after that.

 

[tonyh]

I knew I would get some responses from this as Coltrane is loved by all, I'm not trying to say I don't like Coltrane or that he can't play, I too love what I have listened to before, but I have to say I got a shock when I came across these tracks, I guess I was not expecting anything like it, even though I don't like it I bet it took some full on blowing.

 

[saintsday]

If you haven't already checked it out, you might want to listen to Pickett talking about "Expressions" here http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=66045
Not to torture you, but to give you a feel why some like later St. John.

 

[blue boy]

Crescent

Listen to Crescent...a transitional album where Coltrane has one foot in each of his big (solo work) developmental stages. Although the clear delineation of foot tapping time is still there, some of his solo playing pushes forward toward the later stuff. You can hear his later concepts applied to a standard type/ accessible jazz style. What a genius!