[Sonofog]

It seems that all of the best high school sax players (on a national level) are stuck. From what I have seen and heard (me being a high school player) most of the "best" high school players just regurgitate the same licks that are played by everyone else, without much sense of purpose. The problem is, these people are the ones making it into the high-level ensembles, so they get rewarded for mindless improvisation. The bad part is that they are no fun to listen to at all. Its just a streamline of technicalities flying out of the horn.
Does anyone else think this is killing the newest generation of jazz artists?
I think if they actually tried to make something pleasurable to listen to it would help.

Any thoughts?

 

[Buck Laughlin]

If this is true, then it sounds like a real opportunity for someone like you to stand out from the crowd.

 

[Dr G]

'Tis nothing new.

High school players, as a group, tend to suck. There are only a few in every generation that are worth paying attention to. Most will play for a couple years, think they are hot, find out they are not, get a job not playing saxophone, and give it up for life. The good news is that they often badger their parents for nice horns that they sell soon after high school.

What about you? Gonna whine about your peers or shed until you have something to show?

 

[jlima]

If this is true, then it sounds like a real opportunity for someone like you to stand out from the crowd.

Buck, there is so much wisdom transpiring from your comment!

 

[Bubba06]

I disagree.

<-- One of the nicest guys I've ever met.

-Bubba-

 

[gary]

- I think too much time is spent:
- on technique for its own sake.
- on bebop.
- on too many people studying from the same group of books.

But to be fair, the musical maturing process doesn't happen overnight.

Sometime in the 70s, guys like Brecker, Jaco, DeMeola, add whoever you like, ushered in era of extreme virtuosity and the technical bar has been raised to an incredible level. IMO the baby was almost thrown out with the wash. It seems that for younger players to get credibility they almost are required to exhibit scary chops before their more thoughtful musical ideas can be taken seriously.

BTW - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpwbv...eature=related The guy's freakin' scary. And Hawaiian too.

 

[DanPerezSax]

I disagree.

<-- One of the nicest guys I've ever met.

-Bubba-

Eh, just regurgitates some rhythmic and melodic devices from the melody, regurgitates some Ornette, regurgitates some pentatonics built off non-tonic notes, regurgitates some sub V7s and triadic pairs, regurgitates some constant structure figures and Coltrane changes, regurgitates some alternate fingerings (a la Trane instead of Brecker, nice change!) regurgitates a little altissimo... Dude puked up a ****in storm! LOL

 

[Bubba06]

I like his playing quite a bit. And got a fair amount purpose from his playing.

I agree with Grumps; You seem to have to just display you're capable of playing before you can really "play with purpose."
For a while, I would hear things by certain players... You hear them, and say "yeah, I could do that." Then I figured out it's not about what they're playing technically.

-Bubba-

 

[Nefertiti]

I disagree.

<-- One of the nicest guys I've ever met.

-Bubba-

Yeah! Beautiful motivic playing. I loved it.

 

[bandmommy]

High School players are still 'babies', and what do babies do? They regurgitate.
After a while all of the information they have ingested gets digested and eventually comes together.
Sometimes all that comes out is musical diarrhea, sometimes it's some pretty amazing Shi.. stuff.

 

[3141592ab]

I am a high school alto player. I will admit that my improvisation needs some work but I'm slowly but surely getting better. One of my classmates, however, sounds quite excellent in my opinion. He does a lot of just runs up and down scales but varies them up enough to keep it interesting. All I can find is a very old youtube clip from a gig he had freshman year. I can't tell if he is reading the part or looking for chordal structure. He comes in at 00:50. Please ignore the singing.

 

[SaxTMan]

It seems that for younger players to get credibility they almost are required to exhibit scary chops before their more thoughtful musical ideas can be taken seriously.

I feel the same... first comes the chops, until some window opens...

 

[segaleon]

High school players: gotta teach them to just say no...

 

[Agent27]

What do you expect? They're in high school. These things usually take time. I've been playing for 20 years, studying jazz seriously for 10, been out of college and playing professionally for 8 and only now feel like I'm starting to say something with my improvisations.

 

[Dave C]

I disagree.

<-- One of the nicest guys I've ever met.

-Bubba-

I liked these guys, particularly Sapphire Adizes. 'How good' they are I'll leave you guys to argue over......

 

[Steve Stockham]

Very few artists start out being virtuosos as students! You have to start somewhere and regurgitating the styles of the masters has always been an (if not the) accepted way to learn! This whole thread has the same undertones as the "Jazz is dead" thread with many of the same arguments. I understand where you're coming from. I just happen to look at what you perceive to be the problem and I see it as a necessary step in educational development!

 

[Ferlas Soram]

I could not agree with this more. As a player in high school, I feel restricted by my knowledge and lack of formal experience with jazz. I find myself playing the same licks over and over again.

 

[artstove]

But to be fair, the musical maturing process doesn't happen overnight.

Sometime in the 70s, guys like Brecker, Jaco, DeMeola, add whoever you like, ushered in era of extreme virtuosity and the technical bar has been raised to an incredible level. IMO the baby was almost thrown out with the wash. It seems that for younger players to get credibility they almost are required to exhibit scary chops before their more thoughtful musical ideas can be taken seriously.

Yes, I would agree with this. And with Agent 27's point - hey, they are high school players. There is a lot of musical growth that happens after high school.

And if you find the high school music environment does not work for you (i.e. they are looking only at technical chops, or want only derivative, boring repertoire), look for other venues to play. Depending on where you live, there can be a lot of alternatives, each of which will have its own issues/lessons/benefits/problems/stuff.

 

[Harvey]

Stop adding licks to your music and start adding more you to your music.

The elevating differences in the saxophone greats is because the music they play(ed) is developed out of themselves. This is why some are recognized for their techique, some for their styles, others for their sound. The point is they all had and have something unique to express.

If you don't understand what I'm getting at, continue playing licks for now.

Harv

 

[saxophonius]

current jazz education teaches a formula, it is a mechanical one and doesnt address the artistic possibilities. An old piano player told me once: "people think they can learn jazz in scholl, they can't".