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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(if this is posted in the wrong area, apologies)

tl;dr I need a new neck for my Conn, any thoughts or tips?

Hello all.
I'm a happy amateur, been playing for 3 years or so. I play in a jazz band, 30's-50's stuff, happy amateurs as well. We are all into vintage stuff, clothes and dances.

I have been playing a Jupiter rental. Playbility and intonality are fine, modern ergo's and all that. But since I'm a big fan of the golden era. I've been wanting a vintage horn,and have been looking for one the last 18months. I travel alot, so I'm lucky enough to try horns in many parts of the world. Over the last 18 months, I've tried around 70 different saxophones.

So! I recently bought a Conn 10M, serial 267xxx. I bought it in a shop and loved the sound and playability. It could play strong and soft all over the register. I also had to buy a new mouthpiece, since I dropped my Otto Link the day before and chipped the lip (d'oh!) So after testing a few that the shop owner suggested, I settled on a Aizen, that IMO was a good match. All went well and I was very happy. I got the original case and new one as well.

All was well...until I got home to the first practice with the others in the band. I was way too high in pitch. All over I was a half tone up. I had to pull the MP as far out as possible, and even pull the neck up + use a very very loose embouchure to hit the right pitch. Just playing the mouthpiece+neck gives a chromatic F.

I took it to the shop. It was still high when the tech played it, so it wasn't only for me (phew). The tech had 2 Conn necks and 1 Gloger that I tried in combination with a bunch of other MPC's, but the problem was still there (when played with the saxophone of course). One of the Conn necks gave a slightly not-as-high pitch. This neck was a little bit longer.

When I got back home, I tried the Jupiter neck on the Conn. I had to shim in/on a lot of paper, but when I got it to fit, the sax played almost too low. But the octave mechanism doesn't match.

So, with my limited knowledge, I think I need another neck :) A longer one. Any suggestions? I'm aware of Gloger, but I suppose it's tricky to get it the right length.

I found this ol' thread, concerning the same thing.
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...rp-all-the-way-down-to-Bb&highlight=note+neck

EDIT: the Jupiter neck is alot longer than the Conn neck. Just to clarify :)
 

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yeah. id go with gloger. send him an email explaining the issue. odds are he's familiar with it and has sorted stuff out for people having the same problem.
 

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I hope this isn't the case, but haven't you bought a high pitch instrument? Your should come from 1935 so it wouldn't be impossible I guess. Easy way to check, though - there should be a "L" below the serial number for a Low-pitch model.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I hope this isn't the case, but haven't you bought a high pitch instrument? Your should come from 1935 so it wouldn't be impossible I guess. Easy way to check, though - there should be a "L" below the serial number for a Low-pitch model.
It's a Low-pitch, "L" stamped and everything.
 

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Before you go and buy a neck, first test the horn with some other mouthpieces. Try it with a large chamber piece. A 10M can play high with some modern mouthpieces.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Before you go and buy a neck, first test the horn with some other mouthpieces. Try it with a large chamber piece. A 10M can play high with some modern mouthpieces.
Thanks for the tip. I have, I've tried a vintage Otto Link, Lebayle and others. The Otto Link might have been a tad not-as-high, but it was a very small difference, if any and just not me changing. The Aizen I bought is a large chamber.
 

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I have a friend who bought a Gloger neck for an early 10M--expensive but an absolutely perfect fit.
 

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Did you see in that thread about 'venting', I have a 'closet' 10M and the opening between the keys and the tone holes are very open, maybe an inch, or more. More than likely these are the 'factory' settings because the horn has the original pads.
 

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Well.....IMHO the first good reply on this thread came from Whaler up above. Not to knock anyone else, BUT....you can play neck switcheroo all you like, the fact is....it very likely has nothing to do with swapping necks. Also, if the horn is as dramatically out as described, mouthpiece selection ain't gonna solve anything, either....

Is the neck which came with it an original 10M neck ? It sorta sounds like it may not be, actually.
If it is...either the horn is entirely messed up...or whoever set it up completely blew the keyheight adjustments. Thing is, if this is the case, the keyheights should appear to be very open (high) at the moment......

If it isn't an original 10M neck, then the shop was trying to pull one over on you.

(Which makes me have to mention...I am not feelin' a whole lotta love toward the shop which initially sold you the horn.
It's absurd that they worked on it and never checked intonation. Bush-league, really....):evil:

I am also a tad really surprised it has taken until response #10 to suggest THIS:
Maybe you need to just return the darn horn (if keyheight adjustment doesn't get you there). Funny things sometimes happen. I have encountered horns which play way outta tune and in the end this was because somewhere along the way they had had repairs done to their neck receiver ferrules or bow ferrules and when the horn was reassembled the original distances were not properly aligned.

Don't go wasting your time on finding a replacement neck. There are so many variables to replacement necks that all you'd be doing is opening up a whole new can of worms which need not be opened,and ultimately may end up blowing a lotta dolla' only to end up in exactly the same place.

If you like 10M's, there are tons of 'em out there for sale......return your defective one and buy one which works right.
 

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If you like 10M's, there are tons of 'em out there for sale......return your defective one and buy one which works right.
And bring a tuner with you when checking out the next one! I guess that's pretty obvious at this point.

Another option would be to ask the shop to adjust the key heights, for NO cost to you, and see if that brings it into tune. If not, then return it for a full refund.

And definitely don't go spending a fortune on another neck, which might not help at all. A Gloger will cost you almost as much as another horn!
 

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And bring a tuner with you when checking out the next one! I guess that's pretty obvious at this point.

Another option would be to ask the shop to adjust the key heights, for NO cost to you, and see if that brings it into tune. If not, then return it for a full refund.
And if they choose not to stand behind their horns, please do everyone else a service and post the name of the store here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Did you see in that thread about 'venting', I have a 'closet' 10M and the opening between the keys and the tone holes are very open, maybe an inch, or more. More than likely these are the 'factory' settings because the horn has the original pads.
Yes. The pads on the Conn are a little closer to the tone holes than on the Jupiter, the only thing I can compare with atm, but the distance "feels" right (hold in mind I'm an amateur).

Well.....IMHO the first good reply on this thread came from Whaler up above. Not to knock anyone else, BUT....you can play neck switcheroo all you like, the fact is....it very likely has nothing to do with swapping necks. Also, if the horn is as dramatically out as described, mouthpiece selection ain't gonna solve anything, either....
My conclusion that it is a neck issue is from that it blows too high with just MPC+neck, and that it was too high pitched for the tech in the shop here in Stockholm as well. But that could of course not be the case.

Is the neck which came with it an original 10M neck ? It sorta sounds like it may not be, actually.

If it is...either the horn is entirely messed up...or whoever set it up completely blew the keyheight adjustments. Thing is, if this is the case, the keyheights should appear to be very open (high) at the moment......

If it isn't an original 10M neck, then the shop was trying to pull one over on you.
I don't know. There are no markings. Conn did not mark the necks with serial numbers, did they? It LOOKS like a Conn neck, but I can't be sure I suppose...:/ And the keyheights are not too high, from what I can judge with my limited knowledge.

And yes, from now on, if I purchase another sax, I will test with a tuner :) I mean, I assumed that the shop had done that. Seems like a fair thing to assume, especially since it is a woodwind oriented shop.
The shop is not in Sweden (where I live), so there's some shipping hassle included if I send it back to the shop for them to test/work on. It had a complete overhaul done.
 

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I mean, I assumed that the shop had done that. Seems like a fair thing to assume, especially since it is a woodwind oriented shop.
The problem with that is that many vintage instruments intone differently depending on the mouthpiece. Any shop would expect you to try out the horn with your mouthpiece or various mouthpieces to determine if it suits you, and totest the intonation with the two main parameters:

1. That mouthpiece
2. You

I think JayePDX was spot on with his advice. Unless it's the wrong neck, the is no point in getting a different one. I find 10Ms to be very in tune with all the mouthpieces I've used, so it could well be the issue is not with the mouthpiece or neck.
 

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I find 10Ms to be very in tune with all the mouthpieces I've used...
Yet there are still countless numbers of folks who find these horns can play sharp with modern styled mouthpieces, or have their mouthpieces sit very far off on the end of the neckpipe to play in tune (which can make low D difficult to voice). These are very common complaints for these horns, and why they're not for everybody.
 

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Yet there are still countless numbers of folks who find these horns can play sharp with modern styled mouthpieces, or have their mouthpieces sit very far off on the end of the neckpipe to play in tune
Very strange isn't it? Almost as if they made two different models, the in tune 10Ms and the out of tune 10Ms, or rather those that are fine on all mouthpieces and those that whinge and moan at you unless they have Woodwind Co.

I have never had the misfortune to play the latter, but have noticed it with a couple of Chus though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks for all your opinions and thoughts, folks! I really like the tone on this forum, everyone is very friendly, and the collected knowledge is huge!

As mentioned by someone, to be in tune. I have to pull the MPC very far out, and also pull up the neck 10mm from the body, and then I still have to use a very loose embouchure, IMO looser than what is comfortable and controllable.
I've tried 4 MPC's, all large chambered, and there was only a small difference with an Otto Link.

I'm willing to take some of the "blame", since I'm not that experienced. But the problem was there for the tech at the local shop, and he's a much better player than I am. I love the tone, and the ergo's are not that tricky ('cept that darn F# takes alot of force!), so I would love to be able to keep it.

I've mailed the shop where I bought it, I'll let you know what the answer is.
 

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I repaired a 16m that was very sharp. I solved that with a neck extension which allowed his mouthpiece ( Brilhart ) to be pulled back but not to the point of wobbling. But the problem was really solved by u sing a Rico Royal Graftonite mouthpiece which had a longer SHANK which allowed the player to pull mouthpiece back to tune properly.

If you put your mouthpiece on the neck can you blow E with a normal emborchure . You should blow a G without the neck. Is this 10m with the underslung neck, double socket ?
 
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